CLAP... thoughts?

[Urs]

We're internally seen CLAP plug-ins wrapped as VST2 and VST3, support for AU is in the pipeline. These wrappers will be free for anyone to use. CLAP will run in Cubase and Logic, no matter what those companies decide.

As Bitwig supports CLAP already, I am more interested in the other way round. A CLAP plugin as AU/VST host to load AU into Bitwig for example. Best would be a wrapper app, that creates a Clap plugin out of a AU/VST you throw at it... Of course that can't do more than the underlying plugin could do in the first place...

People are also working on the other way round.

[noiseboyuk]

First off, simply every plug-in that comes in more than one flavour is already wrapped. The performance overhead of wrappers and adapters was next to nothing in 2002, and with today's computers it will be very difficult to reliably measure *any* performance impact.

Featurewise CLAP can not magically add anything when there's nothing there. A VST wrapped to CLAP will only ever offer what a VST offers. Also a CLAP wrapped to VST will also only ever offer what a VST offers. Unless of course, maybe, VST gets updated with a feature that CLAP does not offer, and then we'd first have to add the corresponding extension to CLAP and the wrapper to get back to what I said before.

The main benefit of CLAP-as-SomeFormat is that CLAP has inherent stability testing for many common bugs. Hence, fewer crashes are a very likely outcome of using CLAP somewhere in the development process of a plug-in or host.

Thanks, sounds good.

In particular I was wondering if the multicore benefits with CLAP might apply to the wrapped versions (and if so, if that wouldn't apply in a non-CLAP host). So, say, Diva which is multicore - would a wrapped version have the same potential improvements as a straight CLAP version?

[Urs]

In particular I was wondering if the multicore benefits with CLAP might apply to the wrapped versions (and if so, if that wouldn't apply in a non-CLAP host). So, say, Diva which is multicore - would a wrapped version have the same potential improvements as a straight CLAP version?

No, the thread pool feature in CLAP is a collaboration between host and plug-in. You need a CLAP host.

AudioUnits have concepts for this too ("Audio Workgroups"), but it is a lot more complicated to deal with and Logic does not even support it yet. The way it's done in CLAP is just a whole lot more intuitive and efficient. A CLAP-as-AU would not automatically have this, but a wrapper could be written to take advantage of it.

[noiseboyuk]

Gotya - thanks Urs.

Cubase. Damn Steinberg.

[Urs]

Gotya - thanks Urs.

Cubase. Damn Steinberg.

They will eventually listen if enough people ask them.

We're offering a real opportunity to them to extend the feature list of their DAWs in ways that will matter to there users.

[steff3]

Congrats to U-he, bitwig and other supporters for this initial release.

Really seems interesting, looking forward to this development.

Well, Steinberg also supports AUv3 …. Maybe at some point, it will also be in their interest to support CLAP.
It is a bit a shame that CLAP is not available on one of the most wide spread music platforms though … but for now, this is most likely not possible.

First I thought, who needs another plugin standard/platform (what do we already have: MAS, VST, VST3, AU, AUv3, AAX, RE, etc.) - but, reading up on it, it seems that was actually badly needed.

Hopefully DAW developers (MOTU, Ableton, RS, etc.) and plugin developers have an honest evaluation of its potentials soon and start to support it. Of course support in MAX would be terrific … and maybe we see some Clappo-Wrapper/runtime then

[pdxindy]

Although I wonder if I could do most of that "POLY" modulation in Hive itself, What effect would this have on me as a preset designer. The line between DAW and SYNTH has been blurred now.

Hive is already quite capable for modulation. However, Bitwig offers some modulators that Hive does not have.

For example Bitwig's AHDSR Envelope. The Hold stage gives some shapes that the Hive env's don't have. Hive only has 1 random modulator while Bitwig's Random modulator can be used as many times as one wants. There also Bitwig's Steps, Counter and ParSeq-8 modulators for doing parameter sequencing that have no real equivalent in Hive. Then there are Bitwig's Audio Sidechain, Envelope Follower, Channel-16 and AHD on Release modulators which also add useful capability not in Hive. Also Quantize, Sample and Hold modulators. Most of those modulators can be per voice.

Bitwig's modulation adds a lot and the workflow is excellent.

[fisherKing]

even as a logic user, i welcome innovation elsewhere; anyone anywhere moving things forward.

progress is so important, so am keeping an on the development with CLAP, and glad to see people like urs on board. innovation benefits everyone.

[pdxindy]

One useful option with the Bitwig modulation in Hive CLAP now - use a ParSeq-8 to do some per voice parameter sequencing (note restart mode). Then set the strength to zero so it has no effect.

Now create a midi clip and add a bunch of notes. Now you can select a specific note or notes, put them on say midi channel 2 and use Bitwig's Channel-16 modulator so that channel 2 modulates ParSeq-8 strength to 100%

This way you can decide exactly which note or notes in a midi clip are affected by the parameter sequencing of ParSeq-8 while the rest are unaffected.

Very cool capability!

[vertibration]

even as a logic user, i welcome innovation elsewhere; anyone anywhere moving things forward.

progress is so important, so am keeping an on the development with CLAP, and glad to see people like urs on board. innovation benefits everyone.

Love the positive energy. I kinda feel a little bad for Logic users, I do hope apple listens and does something with CLAP.

[fisherKing]

even as a logic user, i welcome innovation elsewhere; anyone anywhere moving things forward.

progress is so important, so am keeping an on the development with CLAP, and glad to see people like urs on board. innovation benefits everyone.

Love the positive energy. I kinda feel a little bad for Logic users, I do hope apple listens and does something with CLAP.

between my roli lumi, the 3rd-party plugins i live on, and logic itself... have more capability than i need. am not stressed for anything. still, it will be interesting to see (CLAP or not) where things go for all of us over the next decade...

[vertibration]

even as a logic user, i welcome innovation elsewhere; anyone anywhere moving things forward.

progress is so important, so am keeping an on the development with CLAP, and glad to see people like urs on board. innovation benefits everyone.

Love the positive energy. I kinda feel a little bad for Logic users, I do hope apple listens and does something with CLAP.

between my roli lumi, the 3rd-party plugins i live on, and logic itself... have more capability than i need. am not stressed for anything. still, it will be interesting to see (CLAP or not) where things go for all of us over the next decade...

True

[vertibration]

I do think for Steinberg particularly, this could end up being Blockbuster video all over again (without the a negative consequence of going out of business obviously).

I say this because if they dont have an answer with VST3, or refuse to adopt CLAP, they will be causing themselves a lot of pain in the future.

[bioroid]

Love this. Not crazy about the name, but since it will probably stick around for life, might as well lean into it and bring back the 'Wrap that rascal' marketing campaign.

[zvenx]

I do think for Steinberg particularly, this could end up being Blockbuster video all over again (without the a negative consequence of going out of business obviously).

I say this because if they dont have an answer with VST3, or refuse to adopt CLAP, they will be causing themselves a lot of pain in the future.

What if they believe, that plugins properly coded for vst3 as is today, and host not encumbered with keeping vst2 compatibility, will already be able to do all of this?
#GrassIsGreener
rsp