Plugins For Various Instruments

[Watchful]

It has a few "okay" sounds (including a passable fretless), but they're recorded at a very low output for my tastes. You can barely hear them, and putting in an amplifier emulator only enhances the questionable accuracy.

APBL and Modo Bass use a variety of samples, per string, with various playing techniques supported that produce a far richer, warmer sound. I also like Waves' Bass Fingers, but it takes 5 full minutes to load. You'd want to factor that into your arranging time, and likely will want to render the bass line as soon as it's done or you have to wait 5 minutes every time you reload the project.

[ChiroVette]

It has a few "okay" sounds (including a passable fretless), but they're recorded at a very low output for my tastes. You can barely hear them, and putting in an amplifier emulator only enhances the questionable accuracy.

Ah, well that answers another question in another thread, where I was complaining about very low output in MIDI channels. It was the bass I was recording, and it was very difficult to get the final volume up, even when I did finally find a barely passable bass sound. I thought I was doing something wrong, as I just posted a few minutes ago in that thread.

APBL and Modo Bass use a variety of samples, per string, with various playing techniques supported that produce a far richer, warmer sound. I also like Waves' Bass Fingers, but it takes 5 full minutes to load. You'd want to factor that into your arranging time, and likely will want to render the bass line as soon as it's done or you have to wait 5 minutes every time you reload the project.

Yeah, I will absolutely give these a try. I may have to wait until late in the weekend to check them out, though.

[jabe]

Okay I will definitely check those out, Peter, thanks. So is that your way of telling me that Collective has no good bass guitar sounds? lol

As you're fairly new to all this, and despite the fact that I've always tried to get each instrument sounding as good as I can by listening and adjusting them individually, it's worth pointing out that sounds that don't necessarily sound great on their own may well sound good enough in a mix.

[ChiroVette]

As you're fairly new to all this, and despite the fact that I've always tried to get each instrument sounding as good as I can by listening and adjusting them individually, it's worth pointing out that sounds that don't necessarily sound great on their own may well sound good enough in a mix.

This may very well be my limited experience with DAW and plugins speaking, but I have definitely noticed an improvement in cheesy, crappy sounds when you bury them in the mix. I say that a little sardonically, because "good enough in a mix" is an opinion. Yes, they sound better, by far. But I have found that a crappy sounding instrument, even dubiously disguised by all the other instruments and vocals, takes away a little from overall quality. I guess it's up to the individual to decide for him or herself if the juice is worth the squeeze when settling for an inferior sounding synth-instrument. I would also imagine it would depend on what the project is being used for when making that determination.

[Peter Widdicombe]

E.Bass Fingered Bassman is ALMOST usable. The rest I'm very disappointed in. APBL is so much better - then again, it has about 500 Meg worth of P-Bass samples just for Bass guitar...

There IS a (free, small) K1v emulator out there that is the virtualisation of a Kawai K1 workstation that has some basses out there - the jazz upright ones are better, but there are a couple that can be used - but the organization is terrible - you wade through pages and pages of unorganized patches to find any good ones. Still, you might find a dozen or so "things" in there you might like - but almost need to keep a notebook of what you like.

Huh. Should have watched the video. Can type "bass" to get most of them more easily...

[fde101]

sounds that don't necessarily sound great on their own may well sound good enough in a mix.

Better, in fact.

Many keyboards ship with preset sounds that are designed to impress on the showroom floor, giving a "wow" factor to the sound of the keyboard on its own, but when you put them in a mix the same things that make them sound good by themselves actually start to step on the toes of the other instruments and sounds that make up the mix, thus making them less suitable for use when playing together with others.

Sometimes you need to make something sound worse by itself in order to make the mix sound better. This is one thing that Kurzweil seems to get right with their keyboards - they are meant to be played in reality, not to "wow" on their own.

When trying to judge the quality of presets from a plugin like this, you should really test them in the context they will be used in, not just listen to them in isolation (unless that is indeed how you intend them to be used, which is not normally the case).

[ChiroVette]

Better, in fact.

I can't speak for synthesizers and plugins, because I have very little experience with any of this. I do, however, have experience with playing live and mixing my bands on stage, as well as some live and multi-track recording. Real instruments played by people only. I can say unequivocally that a sh*tty sounding instrument can be somewhat buried in a mix to sound better than the instrument by itself, but I have never seen a mix sound overall superior with a crappy sounding track in the mix, no matter how much tweaking the engineer did. Again, if you are talking purely about synth sounds, then I'll take your word for it.

[jabe]

Better, in fact.

I can't speak for synthesizers and plugins, because I have very little experience with any of this. I do, however, have experience with playing live and mixing my bands on stage, as well as some live and multi-track recording. Real instruments played by people only. I can say unequivocally that a sh*tty sounding instrument can be somewhat buried in a mix to sound better than the instrument by itself, but I have never seen a mix sound overall superior with a crappy sounding track in the mix, no matter how much tweaking the engineer did. Again, if you are talking purely about synth sounds, then I'll take your word for it.

I get what you're saying and can't speak for fde101, but I wasn't referring to using bad sounds, if that's the impression you got, but rather middling/average ones or ones that weren't quite perfect. I have said in several places that much 1980s music was rendered (to my ears and mind, if nobody else's) horrible, permanently badly dated, and virtually unlistenable by the liberal overuse of very poor synth presets. If the artists in question had bothered to experiment and create their own sounds, I might have had a different opinion, but they still managed to have hit records with the sh*tty sounds. I also hate the 1980s processing of snare drums, where the treble always had to be turned up way past eleven. But that's the thing - it's all about opinions, and sometimes we have to make do with what we have, and often a limited palette forces us to be more creative.

[fde101]

True, something that sounds bad, sounds bad.

Indeed I mean that something that sounds ok but doesn't really "stand out" is more likely to "blend in" - it is the concept of sounds that "stand out" vs. "blend in" often being at odds with each other.

[Watchful]

Likely comes down to its EQ profile. A pad with little low-end sounds great over a bass and kick; a sound that's deep and rich can work great with a high-pitched, feedback-heavy guitar, right? Many sounds can have a weak middle, which sounds great in a mix with other synths, for example.

Individually, they don't stand out--but in a mix, they don't muddy anything up and thereby sound a little better. The trick is balancing.

[ChiroVette]

I get what you're saying and can't speak for fde101, but I wasn't referring to using bad sounds, if that's the impression you got, but rather middling/average ones or ones that weren't quite perfect.

Ah okay, gotcha, thanks for clarifying, that does make more sense.

[pough]

SocaLabs just released Organ in case you're still needing a Hammond sound.

https://socalabs.com/synths/organ/

[ChiroVette]

SocaLabs just released Organ in case you're still needing a Hammond sound.

https://socalabs.com/synths/organ/

Thanks for the info! Oddly enough, I am so focused on editing and backing track creations, that my progress with MIDI has sort of grinded to a screeching halt. (Yes, I know grinded isn't a word lol)

At the moment, I am focused on using Waveform to record all the vocal harmonies, which is turning out to be a MASSIVE undertaking, a lot more time consuming (and tedious) than I thought it would be; but these tracks are coming out so good, I am completely focused on that and the editing. Right now, to be quite honest, I don't have the RAM for MIDI. (I have plenty of PC RAM, just not the mental RAM )

When I get done with this insane part of this somewhat behemoth project, I will get back to focusing on MIDI and other instruments aside from guitar and vocals.

[ON BEATS]

Hey ChiroVette

I have just come across this post and hope you have found your way around using Waveform 11? I am more than happy to show you how I use the software but would need to arrange a messenger/insta video call so you can see what I do to create music on my computer.

If you are still searching for vst's you are welcome to test mine for free. I read you have a Windows laptop so I can send the correct version if you like.

The drums are more hip hop oriented but might work well for creating background loops behind live drums.

I hope you're getting to grips with Waveform though, its really good and from my end 'very stable' for music production and composition.