CLAP... thoughts?

[Trancit]

It would be a great feature for a DAW!

It would be a great feature for a plugin format if you are refering to me...

[Urs]

It would be a great feature for a DAW!

It would be a great feature for a plugin format if you are refering to me...

No, not really.

I mean, yes I'm referring to you, but no it wouldn't be a great feature for the plug-in format.

If it was a feature of the plug-in format, there's a great chance that if you rename your plug-in, all your existing projects won't open anymore and you have to try and remember what you called which plug-in during which era of your musical work. Even worse, if people collaborate and don't share the same idea as to what a certain plug-in is called.

If your host just keeps a list of nicknames for your plug-ins, it'll always know what the original plug-in name is. You're safe for the future and for collaboration.

[Trancit]

No, not really.

I mean, yes I'm referring to you, but no it wouldn't be a great feature for the plug-in format.

If it was a feature of the plug-in format, there's a great chance that if you rename your plug-in, all your existing projects won't open anymore and you have to try and remember what you called which plug-in during which era of your musical work. Even worse, if people collaborate and don't share the same idea as to what a certain plug-in is called.

If your host just keeps a list of nicknames for your plug-ins, it'll always know what the original plug-in name is. You're safe for the future and for collaboration.

Perhaps I am thinking the wrong way but isn´t it a bit different nowadays??

If I have renamed stuff in i.e. Studio One and edited the xml files...everything was seperated...

The "identifier" for the DAW to know which plugin to load was completely different than the display name how it appears in the list...
Why shall changing the "display name" have any influence on the "identifier" or is that just something the host does and inside the plugin there are no seperate names?

[audiothing]

Just saw on IG that AudioThing is already testing a Clap build of at least Wires so they seem on board with the format. Don’t recall if they were on the original list.

Yes, we have been testing Wires CLAP version on both macOS and Windows for a couple of days now, and everything looks very stable. The porting was quite easy thanks to the guys here.
There are no CLAP-only features yet, but we'll definitely work on them in the near future.
We are probably going to release Wires CLAP by the end of this week

Screenshot 2022-06-20 at 23.57.12.jpg

[ThomasHelzle]

[EvilDragon]

Problem is: It isn´t!!!

What does it serves me if theoretical it would be the DAW´s job if they simply do not care??

It's still not something that a plugin format should "solve". It's entirely a feature on the DAW side. So you have two options:

1. Only use DAWs that allow you to non-destructively rename plugins
2. Send feature request to DAWs that don't


But as Urs said, this is not something that will happen for CLAP, and the reasons are obvious.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Being able to non-destructively rename and hide plugins is one of my favorite features in Reaper. It's insane to me that more DAWs haven't included that.

Makes it easy to hide all those T-Racks and Universal Audio plugins that get installed and you don't own. You don't need to delete them after each installer run, just hide once, and never see that plugin again.

So yeah, agree this should be a host feature. If your host doesn't do it, raise a feature request.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yes, we have been testing Wires CLAP version on both macOS and Windows for a couple of days now, and everything looks very stable. The porting was quite easy thanks to the guys here.
There are no CLAP-only features yet, but we'll definitely work on them in the near future.
We are probably going to release Wires CLAP by the end of this week

That's really cool that you were able to do that so easily! Thanks!

[rasmusklump]

Makes it easy to hide all those T-Racks and Universal Audio plugins that get installed and you don't own. You don't need to delete them after each installer run, just hide once, and never see that plugin again.

That is possible in Cubase as well with the plugin manager.

[fisherKing]

Problem is: It isn´t!!!

What does it serves me if theoretical it would be the DAW´s job if they simply do not care??

Cubase... nope...just with wonky editing xml files...waves wasn´t possible
Studio One... nope... same story as with Cubase but a bit easier and works as well for waves
Ableton... nope... no way
Bitwig... nope... no way...
Logic... no idea but I guess...nope...

So all the big guys do not care at all...

against
Reaper...
FL Studio...
Mulab....
for instance...

So, as it is unlikely that the DAW devs will turn round and finally implement something like this and as the days of simple dll renaming are over it would be very nice to have a customization feature like this inside of a new plugin standard to be flexible for the future...

not sure about other DAWs. in logic, i can give a 'short name' to any plugin, then categorize plugins into groups. so i can have an EQ dropdown, and (for example) fabfilter's EQ3 could be named 'MAIN EQ'.

i would think the file itself needs to retain it's correct name so it can be recognized for updates, or for 'management' (ie by apps like the izotope product portal)...

EDIT: oops just saw some of the above posts, and makes sense that the DAW would allow/control 'renaming' of individual plugins

[Pinku Eiga]

Just saw on IG that AudioThing is already testing a Clap build of at least Wires so they seem on board with the format. Don’t recall if they were on the original list.

Yes, we have been testing Wires CLAP version on both macOS and Windows for a couple of days now, and everything looks very stable. The porting was quite easy thanks to the guys here.
There are no CLAP-only features yet, but we'll definitely work on them in the near future.
We are probably going to release Wires CLAP by the end of this week

Screenshot 2022-06-20 at 23.57.12.jpg

This is amazing, but I hope that Bitwig fixes the mess with changing plugin formats.

With Kontakt, when they updated the VST3 version to Mac ARM native, I uninstalled the VST version that worked only under Rosetta.

None of my projects in Bitwig using VST instances was able to smartly changing to the VST3 version. So I lost all the modification in various projects.

With Wires things can be even worse, because I have Wires instances in a lot of my recent projects.

If I uninstall the VST3 version and I install the CLAP version, I hope that Bitwig is smart enough this time, offering me an option to adapt the devices to the CLAP version.

I think that Ableton Live has this option. When it can't find a plugin, if you have other plugin architecture with the same name, it will try to use this version.

If Bitwig continues doing things in this way, this can slow the adoption of the CLAP format. Nobody wants to lost his past projects in the transition.

[Urs]

The transition from VST2 -> VST3 did not work for many plug-in developers who got so distracted by the conceptual burdens in the new SDK that the principle by which this was supposed to work was missed, or simply not present/obvious somehow.

CLAP has a concept to make those transitions available from any plug-in, any format in order to give the user control over their own data. E.g. not only can a CLAP plug-in take over form itself in a different format, a CLAP plug-in can also take over from a completely different plug-in if it declares a compatible set of parameters (and preset/state conversion) along with saying so. This is however another topic that is still worked on, which is why it did not end up in the original announcement.

[pdxindy]

If Bitwig continues doing things in this way, this can slow the adoption of the CLAP format. Nobody wants to lost his past projects in the transition.

Most user aren't going to uninstall the VST version and there is no need to. That is a self inflicted problem

[Wrong Eq]

This thread and the CLAP project are so exciting and uplifting. I was so disapointed and kinda disgusted by Steinberg / Yamaha to abandon vst2 because I have old vst2 plugins that I don't want to give up. Switched to Reaper and switching DAWs is not fun as you probably know. (But damn, Reaper is so amazing and I was so ignorant). It'S generally a good thing to me to be indepentent of corporations.

[audiothing]

None of my projects in Bitwig using VST instances was able to smartly changing to the VST3 version. So I lost all the modification in various projects.

I've just tested this with VST3 and CLAP and yes, you are right, CLAP doesn't replace the missing VST3. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure it should do that anyway, but I'll send the Bitwig team a message to let them know.