KVR Audio

HcDoom · Post by **HcDoom** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:15 am

I dont care is it analog or digital as long as it sounds good to my ears and fits the song I am working on - be it compressor, saturation or synth.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:19 pm

noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:22 amOkay, I think I may have found the source of all the raging. There is a version on YouTube of Being Boiled, called Being Boiled 1982. This is the version that a few of us said just sounds like a remix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRC9K7i ... =martk1972

This is the stereo version that was actually released in the UK in 1980 on the Holiday 80 EP, and in several other territories as a single between 1980-1982 (the original release is mono). This is the one some of us heard and said sounded worse (it does). I'm not sure it's even a proper remix, it sounds like the original master shoved through some effects.

The Travelogue version - released in THE SAME YEAR, a month later in fact, is totally different and is the John Leckie re-record.

Holiday 80 got to 56 in the UK charts in 1980, and was re-issued in 1982 and got to 46. However, it seems the single was also re-issued under a banner of the "re-boiled mix" and got right up to no 6 - also in 1982. I can't actually figure out what version this was though.

So the one that almost everyone plays now is the original mono single version, which most of us say is best (and is also the simplest). The John Leckie version isn't bad and has its own charm - it sounds a bit like Simple Minds' I Travel production-wise recorded at much the same time, but I Travel works better imo (in fact it still sounds fab). The stereo re-jig of the original is a bit rubbish.

Hey, I'm seeing The Human League live tomorrow night. Do you think they'll do requests? Like "Can you do Being Boiled in mono, you know the 1978 version, not the one that John Leckie produced and definitely not the steroized version on the Holiday 80 EP? Hello? Can you hear me?"

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:21 pm

if it's the phil and the girls, they only do dare.

MXJIA · Post by **MXJIA** » Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:51 pm

HcDoom wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:15 am I dont care is it analog or digital as long as it sounds good to my ears and fits the song I am working on - be it compressor, saturation or synth.

This is true. In the end, your audience will most likely not be able to tell whether it was made with true analog sounds. Perhaps an engineer could be able to tell the difference, but for the most part people will appreciate the structure and sounds of the song you make. I do have a few analog synths and am picking up the Arturia FX Collection so will probably have some more insight on that down the road. Hopefully this is as good / close to analog as can be

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:58 pm

All audio processing software is built from a limited set of mathematical equations that do in the digital domain approximately what their electronic counterparts do in the analogue domain. This is true of the most basic freeware to the most expensive name-brand emulations.

But in addition to the basic signal processing it was designed to do, all analogue gear also adds some amount of harmonic distortion, noise, crosstalk, and frequency biasing at various stages. "Virtual analogue" models should measure those characteristics and accurately approximate them though augmented mathematical models. That's what separates "virtual analogue" from basic digital processing.

Software that isn't doing that isn't "virtual analogue" and should not be marketed as such. If it is anyways, that is just a marketing ploy, and a deceptive one at that. Software that does accurately measure and model all of those analogue characteristics is certainly providing something of value that is more than just marketing.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:05 am

noiseboyuk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:19 pmHey, I'm seeing The Human League live tomorrow night. Do you think they'll do requests? Like "Can you do Being Boiled in mono, you know the 1978 version, not the one that John Leckie produced and definitely not the steroized version on the Holiday 80 EP? Hello? Can you hear me?"

Actually, there's a live video from 2016 and the version of Being Boiled on that is very much the original and not the brassed-up Travelogue version, which seems to be the one the Heaven 17 boys prefer. And if that video is any indication, they've got their shit together since I saw them in 2005.

I wonder why Jens hasn't been back to this thread to apologise? It seems the right thing to do after the way he carried on.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:52 am

(apologies for anyone who thought this thread was about virtual analog, and not the early records of The Human League)

vurt wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:21 pm if it's the phil and the girls, they only do dare.

Au contraire...

https://youtu.be/CO4NKGcFFbM

How do you like my phone's added subtle compression on the mix?

That was the first encore before Electric Dreams, so something for everyone. Most surprising was a cover of Yellow Magic Orchestra's Behind The Mask. "We played that because we like horrible synth noises", explained Oakey, "and here are some more horrible synth noises" before a particularly barnstorming version of Love Action.

Fabulous evening.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:55 am

BONES wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:05 am Actually, there's a live video from 2016 and the version of Being Boiled on that is very much the original and not the brassed-up Travelogue version, which seems to be the one the Heaven 17 boys prefer. And if that video is any indication, they've got their shit together since I saw them in 2005.

They was great - 2 synth / guitar players and a live drummer. Terrific sound and performances.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:55 am

Sounds way better than the greatest hits show we got in '05. Love Action is a great song, one I've covered. I enjoy doing all the Human League covers, I've also done Being Boiled and Sound of the Crowd, I think because singing Phil's parts is easy for me. It really surprised me that I could remember all the lyrics to Love Action the first time I played it through, even the rap in the middle, because I've never owned Dare, I just had the 12" single of Love Action that came out before the album and I haven't listened to it in 30 years. I wouldn't mind having a crack at Empire State Human but no-one down here would know what or who it was.

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:20 am

The Human League are a masterclass in mediocrity.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:27 am

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:55 am Sounds way better than the greatest hits show we got in '05.

Phil said something to the effect that they can only do these gigs now because of the musicians they have - ie none of the original band were great players. And technology helps of course. Altered Images were in support and were fun (also Blancmange who were interminable - never liked 'em). Both Altered Images and the League were obviously running extra stuff from a click, but it worked perfectly well.

Love Action is I think their finest hour. Live, that bass was stunning. Such a simple but brilliant arrangement.

jamcat - they do speak very highly of you though.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:52 am

I think Jo Callis is a decent musician and he can certainly write a good pop song. I'm not quite sure how he ended up in Human League after The Rezillos, though, but it certainly worked for the band.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:02 am

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:52 am I think Jo Callis is a decent musician and he can certainly write a good pop song. I'm not quite sure how he ended up in Human League after The Rezillos, though, but it certainly worked for the band.

I've always assumed it was Martin Rushent's doing - producer of the Rezillos. Still a strange move though, given Jo was a guitarist and was banned from playing guitar.

Everything about what happened was surprising. The two "talented" members and songwriters left, leaving just the singer and, er, the slide projectionist. Phil picked up two 17 year old girls in a nightclub, the slide projectionist was promoted to synth, they got in a punk guitarist who wasn't allowed to play guitar and - somehow - they came up with one of the greatest pop albums of all time. As a bonus, we also got Heaven 17 who after a ropey start, did some fantastic stuff too.

I'm procrastinating this morning while watching the UK government collapse I did a little remix on Love Action, just separating the stems in RX, adding some Waves Submarine on the bass and kick and a tiny bit of compression to just make it all kick a little more like the live version. Pure indulgence.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i42xzm92kg0w2 ... 2.mp3?dl=0

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:46 pm

Thing is, Martin Ware and Ian Craig Marsh had no more idea what they were doing than Phil Oakey. They were all doing the punk thing, totally. If you watched the interview with Martin Ware I linked to a few pages back, he has admitted as much.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:43 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:46 pm Thing is, Martin Ware and Ian Craig Marsh had no more idea what they were doing than Phil Oakey. They were all doing the punk thing, totally. If you watched the interview with Martin Ware I linked to a few pages back, he has admitted as much.

Yes I agree. But that wasn't the perception at the time.

I thiiink they can all laugh about it now...

Oh well. Better get back to dodgy sales tactics of developers I guess. But as a (final?) bridge back to vaguely relevant things (maybe), I love Joanne and Susanna's reactions to the male glee at getting the first Linn Drum in the studio. Not suggesting that 99% of KVR discussions are absurd male obsessions or anything. (Time-stamped link).

https://youtu.be/mjDHVP0WAYc?t=3387

Is virtual analog an advertising ploy?