One Synth Challenge #160: ADLplug / OPNplug by jpcima (ZioMau Wins!)

[MyLoFy]

Oh boy, it really wasn't my intention to test the limits of the rules or to start a heated discussion... my apologies. I've listened to hundreds of submissions in the past OSCs and in comparison I still think it's ok to use effects like that; imo they don't really take the sound of the synth beyond recognition. I understand if ppl see it differently, and that's ok.

Also I respect the opinion of @ELEX and his constructiveness very much; however I disagree with many points brought up here:
-Maintaining the "nature of a synth" in my view means: no effects. I'd be ok with that, could be a fun challenge. But please not every round!
-Phasing and filter modulation is not the same thing at all
-External effects are not only used for cleaning/polishing in OSC, but very often for pure sound design. Just throwing OTT and Valhalla Super Massive in the ring I don't fully understand why filters should be the exception when we create massive kicks and snares out of tiny sounds.
-sure you can substitute internal effects with external ones, as long as they're not forbidden, why not? You don't need to use the e.g. terrible reverb of a synth, just grab a better (allowed) one
-What's "modulation" really? I'd agree when talking about oscillator driven modulation entering audible frequencies. Manually designed automation is a much tamer beast.

Of course I lay the destiny of my very controversial creation trustfully into the hands of the organizers. This is all about the fun and the learning experience anyway, right? No way I'd beat the usual suspects with this track anyway

Take care everybody and keep it fun!

[L-EctroBit]

This is all about the fun and the learning experience anyway, right?

You've hit the nail on the head!

[Rahodees]

I may be wrong, but I think that when I started participating in this challenge the atmosphere was more relaxed and people didn't worry as much about being disqualified.

I asked my initial question in earnest, genuinely not knowing what the rule is supposed to be. But in general, and in light of the discussion that followed, I do have an opinion about what you said quoted above.

I'm a newer participant (started at #158), and I do get concerned about what the rules mean, but it has nothing at all to do with fear of being disqualified. Instead for me it's about what the contest is supposed to be about. If we could (as no one is suggesting) simply use all plugins to our heart's delight, I would have no idea why I should join the contest as there are effectively no limits and limits are what make challenges worthwhile. Meanwhile, if we're not allowed to use any plugins except the synth itself, the challenge would largely lie in trying to make the master sound halfway decent, which, well there are contests for that and the "one synth" thing almost becomes beside the point, an artificial way to make it hard to make a good master. In both of those cases, the contest isn't one I'd want to join.

Somewhere between there's a band of possible contests that make sense and are ones I'd want to participate in.

My preference would be on the more restrictive side of things. I'd make a distinction between sound engineering and sound design. Generally with engineering we're trying to give an audience the impression they're hearing clearly what actually happened in the studio so to speak. (This is a fiction but it's the fiction we try to tell.) With sound design, we're trying to actually create a new sound. It's the difference between building a new guitar-ish thing no one ever heard before, and adjusting mic positions to make a common guitar come through as clearly as possible at a concert.

Adjusting mic positions to let the sound come through clearly should be allowed. Covering the mic in foil and taping a buzzer to it to effectively create a whole new instrument even if it starts from a guitar sound, shouldn't.

I do think, after seeing the discussion, that the people who make the rules should clarify for future iterations of the contest whether adding filter sweeps to a synth which has no filters natively is, in their opinion, more like sound engineering (i.e. allowed) or more like sound design (i.e. not). I'd judge that it's design myself, and I actually feel a bit strongly about that, but if people have really been doing this all along then it certainly shouldn't be a basis for disqualification in this particular round.

[Rahodees]

-Maintaining the "nature of a synth" in my view means: no effects. I'd be ok with that, could be a fun challenge. But please not every round!

But, isn't that exactly what the rules say? (maintaining the nature I mean, not "no effects"). Maybe you're making a distinction between the nature of the synth and the recognizeability of a sound as coming from the synth? I'm not sure how to draw that distinction, because the sound that comes from a synth, to me, seems to define its nature.

[Rahodees]

Of course I lay the destiny of my very controversial creation trustfully into the hands of the organizers. This is all about the fun and the learning experience anyway, right? No way I'd beat the usual suspects with this track anyway

FWIW I don't think you should be disqualified given the precedents you're referring to. I just think the rules should be clarified (and I have an opinion about how they should be clarified) for future rounds.

But your remarks bring a question to my mind: What are some things you have _wanted_ to do in OSC's past, which you refrained from doing due to the rules under discussion here? In other words, what limits do you feel they _do_ put on you?

[davi-dj]

Hello friends this is my entry for this month using only one instance of OPNplug. I've chosen OPNplug because its the megadrive YM2612 sound chip. I have a Master System II since my childhood but several friends had Megadrive and I know its sound and I wanted to create a song with it.
This time I thought that it was a good oportunity to make a one instance entry because I wanted to take advantage of the multipart possibilities of the plugin, also the part 10 for percussion is great for that purpouse. I've used 13 parts for different sounds.

The main problem with single instance and several sounds is that the plugin only has a stereo output and you can't proccess each sound but the sounds are very clean and well positionated by nature. Last month I bought a second hand yamaha tx81z and i have the same perception with the sound, I think that clear sound is due to the fm synthesis but I don't know because i'm new in this method and i want to learn more about this unknown synthesis (for me)
I splitted the stereo output into low, mid and high, the low part has a bus compressor and the mid and high have some reverb/ small delay


Daw: Renoise
1 x OPNPlug

Internal effects
1xStereo X
1xBus compressor
1xMaximizer

External effects
2xValhalla SuperMassive
1xJb Broadcast

This synth has brought me good memories, i' ve enjoyed so much although sometimes produces stranges sounds when play several sounds (like a polyphony problems but not really the same, only strange sounds played that i've fixed changing some matching notes when several parts were playing). Also i would like more parameters to automatize, and the feedback parameter produces a sound that dissapears if i touch another control.
My song is an attempt to find the sounds that I liked when a was a child from productions like Technotronic, Information Society, Cubic 22 and bands like those.

https://soundcloud.com/davi_dj/megatron ... al_sharing

[ELEX]

Oh boy, it really wasn't my intention to test the limits of the rules or to start a heated discussion...

Haha...it's not that heated. Is it ??

-Maintaining the "nature of a synth" in my view means: no effects. I'd be ok with that, could be a fun challenge. But please not every round!

Putting instruments in a space and and performing mix polishing/cleaning would still let the nature a a synth shine though plenty, I believe.

-Phasing and filter modulation is not the same thing at all

Though phasing is filter modulation, not all filter modulation is phasing, I'm aware of that.

-External effects are not only used for cleaning/polishing in OSC, but very often for pure sound design. Just throwing OTT and Valhalla Super Massive in the ring I don't fully understand why filters should be the exception when we create massive kicks and snares out of tiny sounds.

It was the only the specific question of @Rahodees in combination with your track that led to the focus on filters. Filters should not be the exception at all, that was the main point of my previous post. Excess of Supermassive or OTT, or any other sound changing effect for that matter, should not be used either imo.

A simple example: if a synth does "ssssssss", then after applying an external envelope shaper a DAW spits out "CLAP!!!", is that not fundamentally changing the nature of the synth's output beyond recognition ? And as such off-limits processing ? To me it would seem that the benchmark question for all external sound processing would be: if an unprocessed preset is loaded, is the sound still recognizable ? If so...fine. If not, stay away from any processing causing it not to be recognizable. IMO, of course. Not heated, but firm nonetheless.

Also, reflecting on learning experiences and external FX use - wouldn't it be a shame if someone would for instance never discover the potential of some FM ratios for clap sounds ( without any additional AM ! ), simply because instead they jump straight to familiar, easy-to-use external FX ? There's an awful lot of interesting and fun fundamental synth programming to be missed like that.

And FWIW, it is not my intention to reduce the fun of OSC participation in any way. Just reflecting on application of rules. Which are a necessary and unavoidable evil.

Please do have fun indeed !
Meanwhile I'll grab me an external effect and STFU now !

[Rahodees]

is the sound still recognizable ?

While I'm in agreement with your points in this thread, I think it's important to acknowledge that "recognizable" is a vague term and that is part of what makes this issue one where people come to it with such different interpretations.

That's why I like asking the meta-question (which I think you've basically asked as well in one of your comments)--what is the contest _for_? To me it's for testing the limits of the synth itself. Placing the synth in an environment is a way to test the limits of the synth--hence why eq*, compression etc should be allowed to a point, but causing sounds to come out of the computer that the synth could never make no matter what broadly spatial relationship you put it into with the listener, should not be allowed.

There will always be edge cases and testing the limit is fun but there are certainly very clear "that's not it" cases as well.

[silverpants]

I agree with Elex. And it's an excellent point about the limited use of effects forcing us to really think hard about how to use the synth.

I think another way of looking at this is: The synth developer should be able to put a link on their website to any OSC track and use it as a clear demo of what their synth can do - without misleading the customer.

On the Full Bucket website, on his demos he writes "Completely done with the Blooo plus a few effects." and we know he means some light compression, eq, reverb. Nothing that would mis-sell the capabilities of the synth.

[Rahodees]

I think another way of looking at this is: The synth developer should be able to put a link on their website to any OSC track and use it as a clear demo of what their synth can do - without misleading the customer.

^That seems an almost perfect way to put it tbh

[L-EctroBit]

I agree with Elex. And it's an excellent point about the limited use of effects forcing us to really think hard about how to use the synth.

You know, in one of my recent comments I left a link to the first OSC thread (OSC 1). I recommend you take a look at the first OSC threads (OSC 1, 2, 3). There you can see how some of the first OSC participants made their tracks with just a compressor on the master bus or just a few effects. What I mean by this is that there is nothing new. This is a 13-year-old competition and it is not easy to find new proposals related to this topic, although not impossible.

In addition, here nobody forces the participants to use effects on the tracks. It is up to each contestant whether he or she will use little or no effects at all. In fact it would be quite an achievement for someone to reach the top five without using a single external effect. A real challenge, without a doubt.

[Rahodees]

A real challenge, without a doubt.

One might even go so far as to call it a one synth challenge.

[Rahodees]

I mean apologies for being a little argumentative here but, I find this quote right at the top of your link!

"So I suppose what we're looking for as a yardstick is the "wow! you did that whole track with one synth and hardly any effects????????" factor ..."

Do you not feel that goes directly against what you're saying about the OSC?

[ChristopherWD]

This discussion reminds me of the back-and-forth I was having in my mind when approaching this as a newcomer to this challenge, and I also got a lot of help about that from users here too, so thank you everyone! For me, I mainly took the rules to mean.. if the synth itself is still preserved with all effects bypassed then you're good to go. There were a few times when I was using effects where things got a little overboard on saturation or transient design where I realized the ratio between the synth and an external effect was being tipped, so I went back to the synth itself and started again.

It also meant a lot of stuff on the drawing board I wanted to do ended up getting discarded. Trying to make a non-metallic sounding electric guitar lead on FM was just not working for me without a lot of overdrive and filtering... the moment I realized I had to rely on those external effects to get that sound, I just decided to abandon it altogether...

I went through that a lot this challenge, but it makes you approach things differently, which I suppose is where the real challenge is. I look forward to the future challenges too and I'm really enjoying everyone's compositions they've posted here so far.

[empphryio]

Here's my contribution: Blinders Off
https://soundcloud.com/baronbodissey/os ... al_sharing
19 instances of ADL in Reaper. It was very buggy and probably negatively affected my sound design but I guess I'll see what the rest of you came up with.
Lots of Supermassive Valhalla and ReaEQ. Master with TDR Nova, IVG Klangheim, Luftikus, A1StereoControl, ReaEQ.
I enjoyed the song I made. It's nice to play variations on the grand piano at work. But not a fan of ADL.