Why do people here hate on cherry audio?

[briefcasemanx]

lol yeah, the CA2600 is absolute crap because the oscillator sync or whatever minor thing doesn't sound good, uh huh. This is the type of thing that people that actually don't make music say.

One of the lamest defense right from the playbook.
There are people that care about good sync sounds when making music.
Is it so damn difficult to grasp that we’re not oscilloscope- spectrum gazers just to point out flaws ?
But please go on, you’re mildly entertaining .

You seem to have missed the entire last half of my post where this is addressed.

[BONES]

Yeah. That's not what Seb said.

He said that it can't be an emulation if it is inexpensive.

No, what he said is that if they were really any good, they'd be charging more for them. I see it the other way - maybe if they charged more for them, they'd have the money to do a better job. But I don't think that would stand up because I'm sure they make plenty of money with the business model they have. It's probably easier to get 1,000 people to pay $30 than it is to get 300 people to pay $100 and in both cases you end up with 30 grand in the bank.

So while not expensive, still priced too high for its marketing and transfer fee might as well make it a NFR at this point for me

Really? At $30-$40 new, who would even bother trying to sell it second-hand? Surely it wouldn't be worth the hassle? It sure as hell wouldn't occur to me to go looking for a second-hand version of something in that price range.

Let's be honest, oscillator sync doesn't sound good on any synth. It's for playing that one Cars song and nothing else. (I'm kidding, but only kinda.)

You're thinking about Hard Sync but basic osc sync is absolutely essential for punchy basslines. And really good Hard Sync is worth its weight in gold.

More importantly, I just like the way CA2600 sounds.

I bought it on spec but I don't rate it at all. I'll always go to Odyssey over it, which makes it a waste fo $29 or $39 or whatever I paid for it. I think that's a problem with every emulation - we'll all pick the one we like the mosst and the others won't get a look in.

[BBFG#]

So while not expensive, still priced too high for its marketing and transfer fee might as well make it a NFR at this point for me

Really? At $30-$40 new, who would even bother trying to sell it second-hand? Surely it wouldn't be worth the hassle? It sure as hell wouldn't occur to me to go looking for a second-hand version of something in that price range.

That's actually my point. I see them regularly on the second hand market and it tells me there's an implied loss for anyone deciding to rid themselves of them (for whatever reason). So taken full circle, it signals to me they aren't worth the hassle of buying in the first place. (And I'm one that bought Union and eventually gave it away. Not because it was bad, but because I just didn't find a use for it. And TBF, I bought it for the freebies I got with it anyway.)

[machinesworking]

tbh I've little interest in the basic Juno etc emulations anyway which I find a bit boring but I do think the modules co-created with MRB standout for me and sound a lot better. Although Softube modular does sound great it also has a much worse interface, Voltage Modular is faster for me to create stuff in.

My main complaint was the high end, not pleasant, if the MRB modules sound better that's great. I'm just more frustrated that there isn't IMO any really good emulation of a Memorymoog out there, and Cherry have one.

One thing this thread brings up yet again is here's another company claiming accurate emulations of hardware, and not delivering. We accept it when it wouldn't be much to ask for not to be lied to about it. It's perfectly fine and rational to say "in homage to" the hardware its' copying, but that doesn't sell I guess? They literally have the slogan "Absolute Authenticity" for their MiniMoog emulation. It's insulting, period. So if there's flatly any logical completely understandable reason for people hating on them, it's this level of marketing for what is probably the least authentic MiniMoog emulation.

[Arashi]

So if there's flatly any logical completely understandable reason for people hating on them, it's this level of marketing for what is probably the least authentic MiniMoog emulation.

I take your point, but I believe Arturia still holds that title. (I like Arturia a lot, but their Minimoog is old and really bad.)

[BONES]

One thing this thread brings up yet again is here's another company claiming accurate emulations of hardware, and not delivering. We accept it when it wouldn't be much to ask for not to be lied to about it.

Who's "we"? I don't give a rat's arse how accurate an emulation is, as long as it sounds good. In fact, I find the more slavish emulations to be quite tedious most of the time. e.g How hard would it be to add a release knob to a SEM emulation's envelopes? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by slavishly copying the original in that situation. I much prefer something "inspired by". That's why FBM's MonoFury gets a lot of use from me and Korg's Mono/Poly clone gets none at all.

[Arashi]

I bought it on spec but I don't rate it at all. I'll always go to Odyssey over it, which makes it a waste fo $29 or $39 or whatever I paid for it. I think that's a problem with every emulation - we'll all pick the one we like the mosst and the others won't get a look in.

Korg’s ARP Odyssey plugin is indeed more accurate (in fact I’ve never heard any emulation that sounds more like the hardware…it’s really quite stunning). If I want to copy a patch from the hardware, that’s what I turn to.

I just treat CA2600 as a different synth. Pretty happy with some of the sounds I’ve gotten from it.

[machinesworking]

So if there's flatly any logical completely understandable reason for people hating on them, it's this level of marketing for what is probably the least authentic MiniMoog emulation.

I take your point, but I believe Arturia still holds that title. (I like Arturia a lot, but their Minimoog is old and really bad.)

I haven't A/B'd them but yeah the Arturia's Mini it pretty thin, and I hate that word as description 99% of the time, but if the shoe fits.

[Arashi]

I haven't A/B'd them but yeah the Arturia's Mini it pretty thin, and I hate that word as description 99% of the time, but if the shoe fits.

Agreed. I usually don’t use that word either, but thin is exactly what it is. It has all the weight of a cardboard cutout of a sumo wrestler.

I’m sure they realize it needs a rewrite, but it’s gotta be hard to get motivated to work on that one when it’s already been completely nailed by The Legend and Model 72. I think they should tackle the Matrix-12 next, since nobody else has done it yet.

[machinesworking]

One thing this thread brings up yet again is here's another company claiming accurate emulations of hardware, and not delivering. We accept it when it wouldn't be much to ask for not to be lied to about it.

Who's "we"? I don't give a rat's arse how accurate an emulation is, as long as it sounds good. In fact, I find the more slavish emulations to be quite tedious most of the time. e.g How hard would it be to add a release knob to a SEM emulation's envelopes? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by slavishly copying the original in that situation. I much prefer something "inspired by". That's why FBM's MonoFury gets a lot of use from me and Korg's Mono/Poly clone gets none at all.

My point is clear, I'm with you, any emulation should improve on the original where it makes sense, but the general public accepts heavily aliased plug ins that are emulating hardware with no aliasing, thin filters or oscillators where the hardware is thick, awkward unusable overtones in high registers, etc. etc.

It's not even a software issue, it's a programming issue. there's been plenty of software synths that are better than anything in hardware, I would say that's true of any sampler, wavetable synth etc. etc.

[machinesworking]

I haven't A/B'd them but yeah the Arturia's Mini it pretty thin, and I hate that word as description 99% of the time, but if the shoe fits.

Agreed. I usually don’t use that word either, but thin is exactly what it is. It has all the weight of a cardboard cutout of a sumo wrestler.

I’m sure they realize it needs a rewrite, but it’s gotta be hard to get motivated to work on that one when it’s already been completely nailed by The Legend and Model 72. I think they should tackle the Matrix-12 next, since nobody else has done it yet.

They did an OK job on the Matrix 12, but you're right. I have an Xpander, and mostly it's again the oscillators, they're thin in the Matrix, compared to all the drift and chorusing they produce naturally in the hardware. Some of the factory patches are dead on, but because it's not a perfect model, the settings aren't even close compared to the hardware. I wish they hadn't cut corners there, because it would be great if it was dead on, and accepted SysEx patches like NI's DX7 did. Honestly I would sell the Xpander if they did. I like it a lot but it exists in a weird spot programming wise where it's painful once you start going deep or trying things like using it as an MPE hardware synth. The MIDI is too basic for that, it gets confused too easy.

[BONES]

Korg’s ARP Odyssey plugin is indeed more accurate (in fact I’ve never heard any emulation that sounds more like the hardware…it’s really quite stunning). If I want to copy a patch from the hardware, that’s what I turn to.

Yeah, I don't care how accurate it is, I use it because it sounds better. Simple as that. At least, I used to use it until it started freaking out on me a few weeks ago.

any emulation should improve on the original where it makes sense, but the general public accepts heavily aliased plug ins that are emulating hardware with no aliasing, thin filters or oscillators where the hardware is thick, awkward unusable overtones in high registers, etc. etc.

But people also put up with ladder filters, even though they are complete shit. And, given a choice, I'd probably put up with a bit of aliasing before I'd put up with a ladder filter, because the more accurate it is, the more I'll hate it.

there's been plenty of software synths that are better than anything in hardware, I would say that's true of any sampler, wavetable synth etc. etc.

I think the problem is that they waste their time trying to sound exactly like something nobody wanted 40 years ago, instead of putting that time into making something that's actually good. My favourite filter is pure software, designed to sound as good as it can sound, not to sound like something awful that existed decades ago.

[machinesworking]

One of these days Bones we're going to have to have to get a doll and have you show us where the Ladder Filter touched you. Look ladder filters are not true low pass filters, more like mild band pass filters that concentrate on the high end, but in no way are they useless. You have this obsession with them that's kind of... weird. It's one of the most popular filter types ever made, and like a lot of things you don't have to use them, no one is forcing you, unless there's some back story that we don't know about? One day in band camp... oh wait that was a flute.

[GusGranite]

Voltage Modular is most excellent. Forever grateful to Cherry Audio for that platform. There’s a lot of excellent third party module developers on VM but MRB and Playertron are leading the crowd IMO. Check them out.

[crickey13]

"Hate" as a term in 2022 is completely worthless. Any basic criticism is very quickly labelled as "hate". Also, criticism does NOT have to be constructive. It's nice of the person if he/she/hen/<insert 20 others here> gives constructive criticism but it is not mandatory for a society to function. Sometimes it's even impossible when it comes to subjective things like sound.

The term "hater" is most likely a product of social media, which is why it is so meaningless and utterly pathetic. Don't like the photo of my ass on instagram? Hurr durr, you're a hater.

No wonder politicians love using it so much like the bunch of primadonnas they are. There are no universally agreed criteria of what "a hater" means, so it can mean anything depending on a context; you can label anybody as "a hater" and get away with it because it's just a slur at this point.