CLAP... thoughts?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
RELATED
PRODUCTS
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
95339 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:27 am

rollasoc wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:23 am So essentially a load of developers will code for CLAP and then wrap the CLAP code in a VST3 wrapper to apease the Steinberg overlords.

How much latency will this wrapper approach add?
well, the majority of vst3 instruments available at present, are ports from other formats, in a vst3 wrapper.
au's are wrapped vsts or vice versa.
or juce wrapped in vst....

it should just be the same really.
we're all mad here! im mad, youre mad, everybody is mad!!
pootube
viable hybrid the test tube

User avatar
Music Engineer
KVRAF
4135 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:01 am

Held wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:25 am
rollasoc wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:23 am So essentially a load of developers will code for CLAP and then wrap the CLAP code in a VST3 wrapper to apease the Steinberg overlords.

How much latency will this wrapper approach add?
Since this happens at compile time, none I would assume.
Wrappers don't add latency - neither compile-time nor runtime ones. They may potentially add some processing overhead but that has nothing to do with I/O latency. And any processing overhead will probably be negligible anyway. Also, none of this has necessarily much to do with the question if the wrapping happens and runtime or compile time - and both approaches are technically possible. A compile-time wrapper can potentially give you less overhead (or even none at all) but whether or not that is actually the case really depends on the specific implementation(s) and even on the compiler settings used to build the binary.
Last edited by Music Engineer on Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Full Bucket
KVRian
871 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:23 am

Just got a CLAP prototype of the blooo running and beeping in Bitwig 4.3. Needs some testing though... anyway, good stuff! :tu:

User avatar
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
6047 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:36 am

Full Bucket wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:23 am Just got a CLAP prototype of the blooo running and beeping in Bitwig 4.3. Needs some testing though... anyway, good stuff! :tu:
Awesome! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :)
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
21664 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:43 am

:tu:

Winstontaneous
KVRAF
2229 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:13 pm

Markus Krause wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:14 am I don't think that this idea is too weird or very old-school. I developed several tracker in the past and was used to scrolling downwards for the timeline. It was never clear to me why the piano-roll in DAWs was not rotated by 90 degrees - just in the way like the keys of a real piano are arranged. Maybe because there is more space in the X-axis? :ud:
Or why don't they just call it an "accordion roll" when it's horizontal? That would settle it once and for all! :D

User avatar
fisherKing
KVRAF
Topic Starter
2815 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Post Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:03 pm

Winstontaneous wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:13 pm
Markus Krause wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:14 am I don't think that this idea is too weird or very old-school. I developed several tracker in the past and was used to scrolling downwards for the timeline. It was never clear to me why the piano-roll in DAWs was not rotated by 90 degrees - just in the way like the keys of a real piano are arranged. Maybe because there is more space in the X-axis? :ud:
Or why don't they just call it an "accordion roll" when it's horizontal? That would settle it once and for all! :D
an "accordion roll"... is that anything like a spring roll?

my first introduction to a sequencer was my brother's roland mc50 mk2; what a great thing that was. it had a one-line window, so each next note showed up there (with velocity etc info) ie... vertical scrolling. and it made sense.

but most DAWs seem to a: take advantage of the width of a screen, and b: move the way sheet music (which i've never used) moves. and being able to zoom out and see an entire arrangement is awesome.

also (am confused about this), i play my keyboard horizontally; is that weird? tonight i will try your idea about 'vertical'... :D
https://upstatebrooklyn.com
one plugin short of perfection...

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
7488 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:12 am

Markus Krause wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:14 am I don't think that this idea is too weird or very old-school. I developed several tracker in the past and was used to scrolling downwards for the timeline. It was never clear to me why the piano-roll in DAWs was not rotated by 90 degrees - just in the way like the keys of a real piano are arranged. Maybe because there is more space in the X-axis? :ud:
The much easier explanation is the relation to classical notation. The timeline is horizontal and has been since many centuries. Trackers are invented by nerds with no formal musical education…; - )

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
22671 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:20 am

CLAP casually mentioned by Microsoft's Pete Brown in this article here.

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
7488 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:48 pm

EvilDragon wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:20 am CLAP casually mentioned by Microsoft's Pete Brown in this article here.
Funny, he mentions VST, RTAS and CLAP. He does not know that RTAS is abandoned and does not mention AAX which replaced RTAS. I doubt that you can get an ancient 32-bit ProTools running in Windows ARM, or that anybody would even bother to try…
CLAP arrived in the clueless mainstream even before AAX did…

rasmusklump
KVRAF
1566 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Germany

Post Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:46 am

This guy is far from clueless (opposed to others as it seems)

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
9863 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:36 am

This being the CLAP thread in the instrument forum, it looks like TAL is starting to create CLAP plugins with TAL U-No-LX v4.60 being the first instrument across the line. However, there doesn't appear to be any polyphonic modulation capabilities as of yet. I'm sure all of that will take time, but figured I'd mention it here.

Andreya_Autumn
KVRist
101 posts since 21 Feb, 2022

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:42 pm

I read something from BaconPaul on another forum that indicates this might not take so long. That's how I read it anyway, but of course that doesn't mean much. ;)

Anyway, I like TAL a lot, tho I still haven't bought any of their things, just used some free ones. I can imagine their simpler synths getting taken to the next level by the poly-mod features. :)

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
9863 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:57 pm

Andreya_Autumn wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:42 pm I can imagine their simpler synths getting taken to the next level by the poly-mod features. :)
I was musing recently that developers may start getting a little light with modulation sources/capabilities in their synths and begin saying things like, "hey, if you want more modulation, use the CLAP version in Bitwig..." :hihi:

...That wouldn't really happen though right? :?:

Andreya_Autumn
KVRist
101 posts since 21 Feb, 2022

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:39 pm

I'd certainly think not. :) In some future where every major DAW includes parameter modulators and CLAP support, sure. But we got a ways to go before then.

Return to “Instruments”