What do you think of the Deepmind 12?

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
12240 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:42 am

Trancer wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:59 pmThe best period for me was the days of Mopho, Tetra and the pinnacle of innovation at the time, the Polyevolver.
Well, as an previous owner of a MoPho, two Tetras, a Prophet ‘08 and an Evolver, that seems like a weird statement, because the REV2 is a 16 voice MoPho/Tetra without feedback. The MoPho is just a single voice of the ‘08 with feedback and a sub oscillator, but the REV2 added the sub in.
Then it was the surf revival Prophet in lots of versions, it looks more like a money machine than anything else, which is a shame by the way.

Considering the exceptional talent of Dave Smith.
There was the 6 and then the 5 mk4. Only two versions, though the 5 mk4 came in a 10 voice version and they all had module options. There was a lot of vocal demand for those synths and he made them. Why is that a shame? Should he not eat? Did he not deserve money for his exceptional talent? Have you seen the cost of living in San Francisco?
No more innovation and exceptional machines like the Polyevolver.
You musts have slept though the Prophet 12, Pro 2, 3 and Tempest.
The Rev 2, I personally find it soulless, no interests.
Again, not sure why something that is basically 16 voices of the MoPho, that you like, would be something you’re not interested in, but OK. Maybe the name isn’t silly enough? :lol: Don’t get me wrong, I tried to find a PolyEvolver rack for a really long time. I eventually gave up and got the Prophet 12 module, which is not as good in some ways, better in others.

One thing I can say for sure is that the “soulless” REV2 kicks the ass of the lame Deepmind in every way imaginable, except for effects. When I got rid of my Deepmind, I just bought an X-Air 12 to use as a processor, but after a while it occurred to me that the effects were not really that special compared to what’s in my UAD Apollo or native plugins.
Indeed Modal, very good material.
Yeah, they sound nice, but they’re a shadow of what the 002 is. Shame they turned away from that side of the market. The Cobalt can be easily replaced by a $200 plugin, but nothing sounds like the 002. If you can find one, get it. It’s got a few quirks, but in the end, the sound is really on another level.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Trancer
KVRist
Topic Starter
366 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:18 am

Thank you for your response and report.

I'm not saying a shame, but precisely with the talent of Dave Smith, he could have created many other things than replicas, even if improvements have certainly been made.

No, I haven't slept during this time.

The tempest yes, but not finished and abandoned while a lot of user demand, the Prophet 12 an evolution, just like the Prophet 6, addition of an arpeggiator and sequencer that version 5 did not have.

Yes indeed Mopho one way, just like the Toraiz as-1 one way of the Prophet 6.

I'm more sensitive to a monophonic you have to believe.

Modal, really a shame to have abandoned version 002.

I suspect that the Rev 2 crushes the Deepmind.

On the other hand 500 euros more (version 8 ways module). Before, 1300 euros and now 1800.

On the other hand 100 euros more only for version 16 in module.

The crisis I want but at some point you have to stop with the crisis, the good excuse for everything.

The Rev 2 is an old product and they have been in production for a long time.

It was enough to follow the evolution on the availability on certain well-known internet brands and the price increased, while they were in stock.

So nothing to do with the crisis, just an increase which in this case is unjustified.

So 500 euros more that does not justify, see above, I do not put this excess amount for this instrument.

dellboy
KVRAF
2024 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:32 am

Trancer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:18 am
So 500 euros more that does not justify, see above, I do not put this excess amount for this instrument.
500 euros is for the Deepmind 6 and is a bargain at that price. The Deepmind 12 is around the 695 mark now, and is the one I would go for because you can double the voices in unison mode.

JockMcRonan
KVRer
3 posts since 6 Apr, 2022

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:01 am

:arrow:
Last edited by JockMcRonan on Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRian
1006 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:06 am

Sounds like it got damaged during shipping, those things happen.
Only a few presets were designed by DeepMind team members, most were by commission by sound designers like Richard Divine, Ben Crosland etc. Presets are of course a matter of taste. I think the presets showcase what the synth is capable of, but they aren't necessarily useful in all styles of music due to their overuse of FX. I also found the presets in my Rev2 rather unusable for my music anyway. Luckily analog synths aren't about the presets, you can design your own sounds or buy preset packs that better fit your taste. If you only care about presets, something like a Roland Fantom might be better, or a digital piano.

Trancer
KVRist
Topic Starter
366 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:41 am

Thank you for your answers.

The Deepmind 12 D really gets my full attention.

A piano does not interest me.

the Phantom is a Workstation, not really useful for my use, too many classic sounds.

Seen my current and very soon future material.

Virus ti2 / Subsequent 37 / Nord lead A1 / Blofeld module Black / Toraiz as-1.

I wonder if to complete my set, even if a much higher price, an OB 6 would no longer be appropriate.

What do you think ?

Scotty
KVRAF
2496 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:35 am

Trancer wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:41 am Thank you for your answers.

The Deepmind 12 D really gets my full attention.

A piano does not interest me.

the Phantom is a Workstation, not really useful for my use, too many classic sounds.

Seen my current and very soon future material.

Virus ti2 / Subsequent 37 / Nord lead A1 / Blofeld module Black / Toraiz as-1.

I wonder if to complete my set, even if a much higher price, an OB 6 would no longer be appropriate.

What do you think ?
I don't think the OB has as much broad based musical applications as the other choices you are considering. Where you needed it, you'd likely love it. Personally I would add the Deepmind 12 (d) and the Hydrasynth (49key or explorer). Load up the Hydrasynth with one bank of analog style presets to supplement the wave sequencing style synthesis on board and it would be really versatile in your setup. I wouldn't think that you would need much more unless you were missing a dedicated FM style synth.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
12240 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:42 am

Trancer wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:41 am Thank you for your answers.

The Deepmind 12 D really gets my full attention.

A piano does not interest me.

the Phantom is a Workstation, not really useful for my use, too many classic sounds.

Seen my current and very soon future material.

Virus ti2 / Subsequent 37 / Nord lead A1 / Blofeld module Black / Toraiz as-1.

I wonder if to complete my set, even if a much higher price, an OB 6 would no longer be appropriate.

What do you think ?
I’d definitely get the OB-6 over the Deepmind. It’s a much better sounding instrument. What it lacks in features, it makes up for in very high quality tone, and that SEM filter really sings. You don’t really need a lot of tricks, as your Virus and Blofeld already give you more than the Deepmind can.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

dellboy
KVRAF
2024 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:57 am

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:42 am
I’d definitely get the OB-6 over the Deepmind. It’s a much better sounding instrument. What it lacks in features, it makes up for in very high quality tone, and that SEM filter really sings. You don’t really need a lot of tricks, as your Virus and Blofeld already give you more than the Deepmind can.
LOL! Its four times the price for the desktop version so one would hope that its at least four times better.

Personally, I always find the Oberheim sound to be very "samey," not that its not good, just that it seems to add a very distinct "Oberheim" flavor to all its sounds. great for film scores and that sort of stuff, but maybe not the first choice for "trance music" which is what the OP is into. Maybe its just the presets that are presented in demos which tend to be long drawn out pads which make it seem that way. It would be nice to hear demos that show more of the basic sounds that it can do.

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
12240 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:22 am

Trancer wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:18 am Thank you for your response and report.

I'm not saying a shame, but precisely with the talent of Dave Smith, he could have created many other things than replicas, even if improvements have certainly been made.

No, I haven't slept during this time.
I think you miss the point that the Evolver, while awesome, I agree, didn’t exactly take the world by storm. I had the mono desktop model, and I never really took to it, though I think he made improvements by the time he did the poly. Still, it had a harshness that I couldn’t quite love, and I love a good 8 bit wave going though an analog filter. I’ve got the Waldorf M and it’s brilliant.
The tempest yes, but not finished and abandoned while a lot of user demand, the Prophet 12 an evolution, just like the Prophet 6, addition of an arpeggiator and sequencer that version 5 did not have.
Unclear why people keep saying the Tempest was “unfinished.” People decided it should have sample import and because of that a bunch of people decided that they’d put it in despite the fact that DSI never said they were going to. The Tempest was a fully finished instrument. Maybe it had some bugs (I never came across anything) and maybe it wasn’t what you hoped it would be, but it was a great groovebox, IMO.

A point you miss is that all instruments are an evolution of what came before, even the Deepmind 12, which is billed as a Juno 106 mk2 of sorts. Hardware manufacturers rarely release super innovative instruments because they just don’t sell. When you do find them, they’re from boutique developers. I bet a thousand REV2s sell before a single Eowave Quadrantid Swarm leaves a shop. That’s not to say one is better than the other, it’s more a reflection of what the demand is like. I think Dave made the instruments he made because that’s the kind of instruments he liked, and the reason they sell is because that’s the kind of instruments a lot of people like. You can go on about how he was an innovator, but let’s face it, the original Prophet 5 was a lot less innovative than something like a CS-80. It’s main innovation was that it was more affordable and lighter.
Yes indeed Mopho one way, just like the Toraiz as-1 one way of the Prophet 6.

I'm more sensitive to a monophonic you have to believe.
I’m missing something in the translation here.
Modal, really a shame to have abandoned version 002.
That’s for sure. That instrument was indeed unfinished. Promises were made by the developer, and then broken. Bugs left unfixed. Still, the sound is glorious and I’m happy to have one, though I didn’t buy it new.
I suspect that the Rev 2 crushes the Deepmind.
I think it does, but it’s subjective, of course. One of the first things I do when I get an instrument is get to an init patch and start experimenting with the basics. Not all synths do amazingly well on everything, but there’s a few things that I use a lot that I demand sound pretty good. The Deepmind’s biggest flaw is that the PWM sounds… wrong. I can’t quite describe it… it just sounds kind of weak. Now, I know a lot of people don’t like the DSI/Curtis chip based modern synths, but I do. I love that sharp buzzy kind of tone. It’s very nice, especially in the context of other more richer sounding instruments, and it has a lot to play with. The Deepmind has the upper hand with effects, but even so, I found using ITB effects to give me a better result.
On the other hand 500 euros more (version 8 ways module). Before, 1300 euros and now 1800.

On the other hand 100 euros more only for version 16 in module.

The crisis I want but at some point you have to stop with the crisis, the good excuse for everything.
It’s true, the REV2 is definitely a lot more expensive, but I always look at it in a different way. What’s the best use of your space, and what will help you make the music sound like you want? A cheaper synth that doesn’t inspire… a chunk of desktop lost to nothing, or not much. A more expensive instrument that you use all the time? A bargain. It’s easier to save up for the instrument that you want than to make more space.
The Rev 2 is an old product and they have been in production for a long time.
True. The “core” engine of the REV2 has been around since 2008, with the Prophet 08. The price has come down, though, as the feature list has gone up. You get a lot more for your money now than when the original was released.
It was enough to follow the evolution on the availability on certain well-known internet brands and the price increased, while they were in stock.

So nothing to do with the crisis, just an increase which in this case is unjustified.

So 500 euros more that does not justify, see above, I do not put this excess amount for this instrument.
Again, I feel I’m missing something in your translation, but if you think the cheaper thing is going to get you to what you want, you should definitely buy the cheaper thing. I was really excited for the Deepmind 12, because I do a lot of ambient and experimental music where effects play a big part. I was able to make a lot of great sounds on it. There’s no denying that, but in the end, some of its flaws were hard to get past. The day I decided to sell it came when I was trying to get a type of typical sound that I remember getting from the Juno 106. (My first synth) Nothing fancy, just a pad with a fairly high degree of filter resonance that got swept by the EG. I couldn’t get it. No matter what my levels were like, the filter got a distorted quality. It seemed like the filter went from not quite enough resonance, to screaming. Frustrated, I loaded up Roland’s Juno 106 software, and there the sound was. Super easy to make. Sounded awesome. (It really is an excellent emulation) I started thinking, so I took one of my favorite effects laden Deepmind patches and started making it on my two Tetras, using plugin effects modulated by Bitwig’s modulation system. I instantly liked the sound a lot more. That was that, but it is also a product of me liking using software. I imagine if I wasn’t a fan of working with plugins, I’d probably keep a Deepmind for it’s ability to integrate effects with the synth engine. This is somewhat less useful, as the Deepmind’s effects are tacked on at the end, not per voice where manipulation is more useful. Things get really useful when effects are per voice, and I’ve taken to using MSoundFactory, VCV Rack or Phase Plant to really get this type of thing working properly. I don’t know if there’s a hardware synth that has per voice effects that work like that, outside of doing it in modular.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
12240 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:24 am

dellboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:57 am
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:42 am
I’d definitely get the OB-6 over the Deepmind. It’s a much better sounding instrument. What it lacks in features, it makes up for in very high quality tone, and that SEM filter really sings. You don’t really need a lot of tricks, as your Virus and Blofeld already give you more than the Deepmind can.
LOL! Its four times the price for the desktop version so one would hope that its at least four times better.

Personally, I always find the Oberheim sound to be very "samey," not that its not good, just that it seems to add a very distinct "Oberheim" flavor to all its sounds. great for film scores and that sort of stuff, but maybe not the first choice for "trance music" which is what the OP is into. Maybe its just the presets that are presented in demos which tend to be long drawn out pads which make it seem that way. It would be nice to hear demos that show more of the basic sounds that it can do.
What four times the price is to one person is not what it is to another. I agree, it’s expensive (though I only paid $1650 for my Prophet 6) but in the end I feel it is worth it. I don’t do Trance music.

Frankly, for Trance, he’s set with his Virus and Blofeld and really doesn’t need anything else.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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bmanic
KVRAF
9416 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:31 am

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:24 am Frankly, for Trance, he’s set with his Virus and Blofeld and really doesn’t need anything else.
This. You most definitely do NOT need analogue synthesizers for trance, even if you want to create 90's/early 00's trance. Heck, even most 80's dance/techno stuff was based on samples as far as I remember.. only a select few groups used actual analogue synths all the way through without sampling short licks.

Having said that, the deepmind 12D is extremely cost effective right now. I see quite a few of them on sale between 350 to 500 euros. It's extremely easy to get all your money back in case you don't like it. Just re-sell it for the same. I paid 400 euros for mine, in perfect mint condition.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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Uncle E
KVRAF
13439 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:51 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:36 am I passed on the XD as well, too few voices and an annoying noise problem that seems to be coming from the display circuit.
Not doubting you but I don't remember hearing any noise issues with the particular XD that I had. The regular Minilogue I had was noisy.

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Uncle E
KVRAF
13439 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:01 pm

AcrossTheSky wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:00 am Otherwise Waldorf IRIDIUM 16-Voice (wish it was 4 part)is the only one I can think I'd be interested in.
Waldorf M is 4 part.
thinking - DM12D, Korg m...XD 4voice( too little really ), Modwave. to mess around with up to 16 layers I use korg ex61...
I haven't used the modwave yet but the EX-8000 it's based on is an amazing sounding synth. It sounds more analog than other wavetable synths.

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Uncle E
KVRAF
13439 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:14 pm

Trancer wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:52 am I have a Ti2 virus.

Soon I will also have a Nord Lead a1, Subsequent 37, Blofeld module, Toraiz as-1.
Great setup! The DeepMind won't contribute much that you don't already have covered. Neither will the REV2. If you can handle the lack of presets, the Poly D would be good.
The Sequential 6 or Ob 6, beyond the myth, not sure that it will bring me more.
OB-6 I put in the same league as a Jupiter-8. Big, smooth sound. I prefer it over many vintage synths, including the OB-Xa.
So, I'm looking for an analog synth with arpeggiator and sequencer that can complement my equipment and give me something extra.
Doesn't the Toraiz already cover that? How about a 303?

FWIW, I recently got a Roland JD-XA and it covers everything you're looking for. Great analog sound, lots of voices, step sequencer, arpeggiator, etc. It's discontinued now and you can find used ones cheap these days.

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