What do you think of the Deepmind 12?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
RELATED
PRODUCTS
User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
13444 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:40 pm

dellboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:57 am LOL! Its four times the price for the desktop version so one would hope that its at least four times better.
It is.
Personally, I always find the Oberheim sound to be very "samey," not that its not good, just that it seems to add a very distinct "Oberheim" flavor to all its sounds. great for film scores and that sort of stuff, but maybe not the first choice for "trance music" which is what the OP is into.
OB-1 is super smooth and round. OB-Xa is kind of edgy. Matrix-1000 is kind of flat and one dimensional. The OB-1 and OB-6 would be as good for trance as a good Moog would be (i.e. not necessary but a good complement to a Virus). I knew a few trance producers that used the Matrix-12 or Expander.

User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
12240 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:32 pm

Uncle E wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:51 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:36 am I passed on the XD as well, too few voices and an annoying noise problem that seems to be coming from the display circuit.
Not doubting you but I don't remember hearing any noise issues with the particular XD that I had. The regular Minilogue I had was noisy.
It was definitely the XD. I never considered the Minilogue. I never liked the sound. The Monologue sounded good at me, and the XD too, but I kept hearing a weird sound in some demos. I did a little digging and it’s definitely a thing. It doesn’t always seem obvious, but it definitely does sometimes. I can’t remember exactly.. maybe it’s more obvious when you use the sequencer… I seem to remember something about that.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
13444 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:13 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:32 pm It was definitely the XD. I never considered the Minilogue. I never liked the sound. The Monologue sounded good at me, and the XD too, but I kept hearing a weird sound in some demos. I did a little digging and it’s definitely a thing. It doesn’t always seem obvious, but it definitely does sometimes. I can’t remember exactly.. maybe it’s more obvious when you use the sequencer… I seem to remember something about that.
That might explain it. I literally never used the sequencer. ;)

Trancer
KVRist
Topic Starter
366 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:44 am

Thank you very much for your answers and opinions.

It is true that OB 6 is excessively expensive.

It has fabulous sound.

The Deepmind 12 D as already said really caught my attention, because beyond the price, the sound reproduction is not bad.

In addition 12 analog channels, which is not nothing.

It is also true that the Virus Ti2 and the Blofeld and if we add the Nord lead a1 and the Subsequent 37, Toraiz as-1 I already have a magnificent and varied sound palette while remaining in my musical style.

The Hydrasynth option, yes, but not very attracted by this machine, too experimental for my taste.

Regarding the Roland Jd Xa, I had it a while ago and was not won over, but it's still a good machine despite everything.

The Waldorf M, I don't find that exceptional, yet I love Waldorf products.


To return to the tempest from DSI, there were still bugs at the time and which had not been resolved, it was not just a concern for the samples.

Yet it had been requested by the community.

The Deepmind is inspired by the Roland, it is not a clone, therefore, normal that it does not sound the same.

The Rev 2, beyond the unjustified price increase, the Rev 2 does not thrill me at all.

In the vst, there is indeed excellent, but more desire to make virtual music.

Yet I have an Armada of vst.

I want to go back to basics, hardware.


To return to the tempest from DSI, there were still bugs at the time and which had not been resolved, it was not just a concern for the samples.

Yet it had been requested by the community.

The Deepmind is inspired by the Roland, it is not a clone, therefore, normal that it does not sound the same.

The Rev 2, beyond the unjustified price increase, the Rev 2 does not thrill me at all.

In the vst, there is indeed excellent, but more desire to make virtual music.

Yet I have an Armada of vst.

I want to go back to basics, hardware.

Anyway a scourge with the hardware, very often machines with bugs and updates that do not follow, even worse abandonment of the product.

Too bad that the seriousness and respect for the customer is flouted far too often.

The why, I buy successful machines or that the bugs do not bother me for my use.

It's true that you don't really need analog for Trance or melodic Techno, but I like having a machine that delivers a really warm, thick fat punchy sound with a transcendent presence.

I had not thought of the Poly D, to deepen.

The Toraiz is monophonic, it is a channel of the Prophet 6.

I would like a polyphonic one.

Regarding DSI, we will see what will come out next time.

I hope for something new, finally to surprise us and not yet another version of the Prophet, boring this revival at the end.

Innovation, high time.

Not only for DSI, Roland, Korg, etc... the same.

No more creations worthy of the name, just variations of material.

Too bad this limitation and to go around in circles and not to offer anything really interesting and above all unpublished new.

slackhead
KVRist
262 posts since 3 Jun, 2009

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:07 am

I found this youtube video very helpful when I was first looking at the DM12, which I ended up buying (and happy with):

https://youtu.be/bbCCYGiNvFU

dellboy
KVRAF
2026 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:08 am

Uncle E wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:40 pm
dellboy wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:57 am LOL! Its four times the price for the desktop version so one would hope that its at least four times better.
It is.
Personally, I always find the Oberheim sound to be very "samey," not that its not good, just that it seems to add a very distinct "Oberheim" flavor to all its sounds. great for film scores and that sort of stuff, but maybe not the first choice for "trance music" which is what the OP is into.
OB-1 is super smooth and round. OB-Xa is kind of edgy. Matrix-1000 is kind of flat and one dimensional. The OB-1 and OB-6 would be as good for trance as a good Moog would be (i.e. not necessary but a good complement to a Virus). I knew a few trance producers that used the Matrix-12 or Expander.
I have to admit that I have not played an Oberheim since the nineties, and only then to play the inevitable "jump". But as for it being "better" than something else, its all a matter of taste. I have three weedy one osc Roland synths, a Juno 6 - an Alpha juno 2 - and an SH101. Yeah, sure, they are puny one osc synths built to a price, but I like the thinner sound they make, and the enormous variety of different timbres they can put out. An Oberheim on the other hand has a fantastic bottom end that is very rich and thick, something that my synths would not be able to do, but I see limited uses for that type of sound.Unless of course it can actually do all those other thinner sounds but no one produces demos to show it. So can an Oberheim produce the same range of timbres that a Prophet 5 can for instance?

dellboy
KVRAF
2026 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:34 am

slackhead wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:07 am I found this youtube video very helpful when I was first looking at the DM12, which I ended up buying (and happy with):

https://youtu.be/bbCCYGiNvFU
Great video, I enjoyed that.

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
13444 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:07 am

Trancer wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:44 am It is also true that the Virus Ti2 and the Blofeld and if we add the Nord lead a1 and the Subsequent 37, Toraiz as-1 I already have a magnificent and varied sound palette while remaining in my musical style.
It's a very good collection. You really don't need anything more than that. To me, the DeepMind is a lesser synth than the TI2, Subsequent, and Toraiz, and I wonder why you would bother adding it all.

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
13444 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:14 am

dellboy wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:08 am I have to admit that I have not played an Oberheim since the nineties, and only then to play the inevitable "jump". But as for it being "better" than something else, its all a matter of taste. I have three weedy one osc Roland synths, a Juno 6 - an Alpha juno 2 - and an SH101. Yeah, sure, they are puny one osc synths built to a price, but I like the thinner sound they make, and the enormous variety of different timbres they can put out. An Oberheim on the other hand has a fantastic bottom end that is very rich and thick, something that my synths would not be able to do, but I see limited uses for that type of sound.Unless of course it can actually do all those other thinner sounds but no one produces demos to show it. So can an Oberheim produce the same range of timbres that a Prophet 5 can for instance?
Matrix-12 and Xpander yes, OB-Xa and OB-1 no. Matrix-6/-1000 can, as well, but with DCO's.

I basically have the same Rolands as you and understand what you mean. Great synths. Alpha Juno's are completely underrated.

User avatar
cryophonik
KVRAF
8274 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:08 am

Personally, I find the OB-1 to be probably the most boring synth Dave has ever made. At first, I thought it was just the lame demos I was hearing and that once I got my hands on one, I'd buy it on the spot. But, then I did get my hands on one and it did absolutely nothing for me, except keep my debit card safely in my wallet. No vibe, no depth, just the very small Oberheimy sweet spot that really doesn't do much for me. As for the DM12, it's a nicely featured poly synth for a great price and does sound good, but it's got a pretty generic/vanilla overall vibe to me. Again, that's just a personal preference, but neither of those synths would interest me for trance, techno, etc.

I'll throw out one other option that's sure to be rejected by the OP, but a discussion of best analog hardware synths for techno can't be complete without mentioning the reigning king (IMO): Elektron Analog Four mk2. Yes, it's a totally different paradigm than all the other synths discussed here so far, but it's essentially four mono /up to 4-voice poly synth/sequencer/effects/DAW-integrated technolicious synthius drum-machinus grooveboxius maximus. This thing just oozes techno right out of the box. The ONLY problem with it is that it leads to purchases of the RYTM mk2, Digitakt, Syntakt, Model: Cycles, OctaTrack, Digitone, and ultimately ending in brokius maximus.

User avatar
cryophonik
KVRAF
8274 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:27 am

Uncle E wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:13 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:32 pm It was definitely the XD. I never considered the Minilogue. I never liked the sound. The Monologue sounded good at me, and the XD too, but I kept hearing a weird sound in some demos. I did a little digging and it’s definitely a thing. It doesn’t always seem obvious, but it definitely does sometimes. I can’t remember exactly.. maybe it’s more obvious when you use the sequencer… I seem to remember something about that.
That might explain it. I literally never used the sequencer. ;)
Yeah, it's certainly a known issue with the XD but, like you, I never use the sequencer either, so I've never experienced it or been bothered by it.

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
9416 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:57 am

Uncle E wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:07 am
Trancer wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:44 am It is also true that the Virus Ti2 and the Blofeld and if we add the Nord lead a1 and the Subsequent 37, Toraiz as-1 I already have a magnificent and varied sound palette while remaining in my musical style.
It's a very good collection. You really don't need anything more than that. To me, the DeepMind is a lesser synth than the TI2, Subsequent, and Toraiz, and I wonder why you would bother adding it all.
Blasphemy! :D :hihi:

No seriously, the DeepMind 12 is a completely unique package. It can do sounds that you can not duplicate with other synths!. It's not great at emulating other classic synthesizers, but I feel like that's beside the point. It has it's own unique sound and way of working with it. If you are lucky enough to get a good version of it that has noise floor below -90dBFS (at nominal levels coming in!) then it's an absolute steal of a synthesizer. Potentially will even be a "classic" at some point in time. It's absolutely unique.

Heck, it always pisses me off when Behringer doesn't keep innovating with their own designs. The only two unique ones, the DeepMind and the Neutron, are in my opinion their most interesting offerings! In their whole lineup, their own unique takes on things, have been the best (for instance the X32 mixer lineup).
Trancer wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:44 am The Deepmind 12 D as already said really caught my attention, because beyond the price, the sound reproduction is not bad.

In addition 12 analog channels, which is not nothing.
Also, a fair warning to Trancer , do NOT consider it a 12 voice analogue synth. Absolutely most of the time you will have at least two voices going in unison. The mod matrix and how you can independently modulate each voice (even the unison voices separately!!) is what will give you the most sound-bang-for-your-buck. Thus it is almost always 6 voice polyphonic, or less. Very few of my sounds that I've made are fully 12 voice polyphonic. Most are 6.

.. thus I will never recommend the DeepMind 6 as it nerfs the potential too much.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

Trancer
KVRist
Topic Starter
366 posts since 7 Aug, 2018

Post Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:07 am

Thank you very much for your answers and opinions.

It is true that with my equipment, I do not need other things in absolute terms.

It is also true that the Virus Ti2 covers a huge sound palette and the Nord lead a1 gives an analog sound, for bass and sequences the Subsequent 37 and the Toraiz as-1 will also be perfect.

The Blofeld will be a very good complement to the Virus ti2.

Like BAR, I have a TR8S.

But despite this already excellent set, want to have a sound that can sublimate what I already have as equipment.

A fat analog sound, pure, thick with a presence that envelops the rest of my equipment.

That's what I'm looking for, in order to have a totally complete set with a variety of sounds covering the entire sound spectrum.

OB 6 offers a really fat, thick sound with some depth.

Now will it really make a noticeable difference to me, not sure.

The Deepmind 12 D has, from what I have heard, a wide variety of sound, less presence at the bottom of the spectrum despite everything, but, as already said, an option not to be overlooked.

Thanks for the Deepmind video link.

User avatar
Uncle E
KVRAF
13444 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:51 am

bmanic wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:57 am Also, a fair warning to Trancer , do NOT consider it a 12 voice analogue synth. Absolutely most of the time you will have at least two voices going in unison. The mod matrix and how you can independently modulate each voice (even the unison voices separately!!) is what will give you the most sound-bang-for-your-buck. Thus it is almost always 6 voice polyphonic, or less. Very few of my sounds that I've made are fully 12 voice polyphonic. Most are 6.
That's interesting. I didn't consider that. I usually prefer DCO synths in unison mode so that makes a lot of sense to me. The polyphonic unison is what impressed me most about the REV2.

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
9416 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:56 am

Uncle E wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:51 am
bmanic wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:57 am Also, a fair warning to Trancer , do NOT consider it a 12 voice analogue synth. Absolutely most of the time you will have at least two voices going in unison. The mod matrix and how you can independently modulate each voice (even the unison voices separately!!) is what will give you the most sound-bang-for-your-buck. Thus it is almost always 6 voice polyphonic, or less. Very few of my sounds that I've made are fully 12 voice polyphonic. Most are 6.
That's interesting. I didn't consider that. I usually prefer DCO synths in unison mode so that makes a lot of sense to me. The polyphonic unison is what impressed me most about the REV2.
Yeah it's pretty flexible. Each unison voice can have it's own pitch, cutoff, resonance, etc.. even it's own keytracking and velocity settings, meaning they become almost independent and not just a "copy" with some slight detuning of another voice. This makes the Deepmind truly flexible and rather unique.

Unfortunately, you quickly run out of slots in the Mod Matrix if you go deeper into editing the unison voices.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”