UVI go subscription!

[hebex]

You would still have all the music (mixes, tracks, stems, midi files..) you created with this subscription, just like you'd still have all the conditioning benefits after a cancelled gym membership.

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

You don't need to own a nice gym with all the expensive machines.

You fail to see that the evil business model you try to sell KvR-members here in this forum, if not already, eventually will be the ONLY option available for music making with VST-instruments from the company in question. All the VST-instruments we own from the developer beforehand, because of this evil business model then sooner or later will be abandonware.

Using your gym analogy, you seem to want to take from us our expensive machines that we already have bought ourselves with our hard earned cash, and try to force us all into a gym where I and many others never wanted to in the first place. That is not very kind of you.

[nightjar]

You would still have all the music (mixes, tracks, stems, midi files..) you created with this subscription, just like you'd still have all the conditioning benefits after a cancelled gym membership.

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

You don't need to own a nice gym with all the expensive machines.

You fail to see that the evil business model you try to sell KvR-members here in this forum, if not already, eventually will be the ONLY option available for music making with VST-instruments from the company in question. All the VST-instruments we own from the developer beforehand, because of this evil business model then sooner or later will be abandonware.

Using your gym analogy, you seem to want to take from us our expensive machines that we already have bought ourselves with our hard earned cash, and try to force us all into a gym where I and many others never wanted to in the first place. That is not very kind of you.

I can use those MIDI files to start tracks with alternative VI instruments if I want.

The VI instruments you already own will continue to function.. and as long as there is a profitable business model, new VI instruments will come out that you can purchase. Nothing evil is going on here.

And in the gym analogy, you are free to keep your expensive machines.. no one is trying to take them away. And in an unkind manner, you seem to want to deny others from their choice of preferring a gym membership.

Different options for different people's preferences is a good thing.

[hebex]

Nothing evil is going on here.

That´s a slow clap.

I can use those MIDI files to start tracks with alternative VI instruments if I want.

Yeah, right, put in whatever random other VST-instrument from an other company with the exact same sounds coming from the UVI-synth. You don´t seem to understand how this works. You can´t just put whatever other synth in a given VST-instruments place. It will sound different. You´ll have endless work before you to try to get an other VST-instrument to take the place of an existing UVI-instrument, and it still won´t sound exactly the same. No, countless hours of your work risk go down the drain with this EVIL business plan implemented.

The VI instruments you already own will continue to function..

No, it won´t. It will be abandonware soon enough, as the company asap will go full subscription model as soon as enough naive suckers have taken the bait. Again, you don´t seem to get how this works, assuming you don´t have any dark motives/loyalties.

And in the gym analogy, you are free to keep your expensive machines.. no one is trying to take them away.

Yes, you take my and others investments away, as I already have explained, see again above.

Your gym membership analogy from the start is a failed analogy BTW. You can´t buy and own and sell the muscles you get in a gym.

And in an unkind manner, you seem to want to deny others from their choice of preferring a gym membership.
Different options for different people's preferences is a good thing.

I try to tell everybody please don´t go this route, don´t become a slave, and don´t force the rest of us into serfdom by helping big money with this EVIL business model, you´ll regret it in the end. Don´t listen to the snake tongues who talk about "choice", when they -- whether they understand it or not -- try to enslave you. Because you and the rest of us will have no choice, if we want to continue to make music in a DAW, but to bow down to this EVIL business model in the end, if you and enough other people take the bait across the board. You won´t own anything, but big business will practically own YOU.

It´s a slippery slope. Don´t start it. Please.

[SoftSynthLover99]

You would still have all the music (mixes, tracks, stems, midi files..) you created with this subscription, just like you'd still have all the conditioning benefits after a cancelled gym membership.

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

You don't need to own a nice gym with all the expensive machines.

You fail to see that the evil business model you try to sell KvR-members here in this forum, if not already, eventually will be the ONLY option available for music making with VST-instruments from the company in question. All the VST-instruments we own from the developer beforehand, because of this evil business model then sooner or later will be abandonware.

Using your gym analogy, you seem to want to take from us our expensive machines that we already have bought ourselves with our hard earned cash, and try to force us all into a gym where I and many others never wanted to in the first place. That is not very kind of you.

Well seeing as I still “own” vintage vault AND Falcon + multiple FX from UVI (I purchased a while ago) and can still use those products without the sonic pass sub, what you’re saying makes very little sense with all due respect.

Can you even name a plugin developer that stopped selling perpetual licenses after going subscription? The answer is, no.

And there’s this little thing in DAWs called “bounce to audio” and you can bounce any VI instruments (and effects plugins) to audio and you will not lose any performances/sketches whatsoever. And often times replacing a VI can result in BETTER results after designing sounds yourself anyway.

So show me the “evil” in this case because I don’t see it? UVI are still selling perpetual, they are not revoking licenses from people who previously purchased something, so what’s the issue? UVI Shade is even on sale for $64 right now so what you’re saying does not line up with the facts, sorry man.

EDIT: Should people not rent apartments or housing as well? Because after your lease is up you definitely don’t own any piece of the apartment building when you move out, so curious how you view renting an apartment, a car, a gym membership, Netflix, etc etc.

[hebex]

Well seeing as I still “own” vintage vault AND Falcon + multiple FX from UVI (I purchased a while ago) and can still use those products without the sonic pass sub, what you’re saying makes very little sense with all due respect.

Can you even name a plugin developer that stopped selling perpetual licenses after going subscription? The answer is, no.

For now maybe. But not for long. That´s how this works.

And there’s this little thing in DAWs called “bounce to audio” and you can bounce any VI instruments (and effects plugins) to audio and you will not lose any performances/sketches whatsoever. And often times replacing a VI can result in BETTER results after designing sounds yourself anyway.

That´s a non sequitur. You still take away the functionality of the UVI-instrument. With bounce to audio I only record the settings there and then. The continous option for me to alter any settings is gone. Hence, my UVI-instrument is robbed from me, it´s gone.

So show me the “evil” in this case because I don’t see it? UVI are still selling perpetual, they are not revoking licenses from people who previously purchased something, so what’s the issue? UVI Shade is even on sale for $64 right now so what you’re saying does not line up with the facts, sorry man.

Again, for now maybe. Not for long. The end goal is sub-only. If you don´t see this from a mile away, you are either blind, very young, inexperienced and naive or plain st*pid.

EDIT: Should people not rent apartments or housing as well? Because after your lease is up you definitely don’t own any piece of the apartment building when you move out, so curious how you view renting an apartment, a car, a gym membership, Netflix, etc etc.

That´s another failed analogy. A lot of us own our houses already. With this EVIL business plan implemented, it forces us house owners to give up our houses and move into apartment buildings and suddenly start to pay rent. We are being robbed of our digital equipment to instead being forced to hire it.

This evil is nothing new. It has for example happened to owners of very expensive Adobe Photoshop products etc, before Adobe went down the sub business model route. Eventually, if not enough people wake up and start to think, much of the digital music industry will go the same way. And then it will be ONLY apartment buildings, pods and bugs and Bladerunner dystopia etc for all of us. Again, don´t do this. Please.

[vurt]

try watching less sci fi.

[hebex]

try watching less sci fi.

Try start using your brain.

[vurt]

what if them having a monthly known income, gives them more options to create new and better tools?

there could be positive outcomes, but you've decided that because you don't like it, it's evil. that's not the reality of the situation.

[hebex]

what if them having a monthly known income, gives them more options to create new and better tools?

No, it won´t be new and better tools. It´s not creativity and good spirit that drive this business plan, its plain corporate greed. The creative force then will stagnate. Just look at NI with their Komplete thing, a form of sub, it´s not the same company since they implemented that. They have become cautious, afraid, non-creative, lazy and stagnant.

there could be positive outcomes, but you've decided that because you don't like it, it's evil. that's not the reality of the situation.

When you see a big predator animal coming for you, you´d better react ASAP, not wait and see. And warn others. Especially if you have seen the same animal eat others in the village before.

[vurt]

how is komplete a form of sub? i haven't updated for a few cycles, still have access to all my ni synths

you're not thinking clearly, you're seeing predators where there are only shadows, it's fear, not reality.

[hebex]

how is komplete a form of sub? i haven't updated for a few cycles, still have access to all my ni synths

You were talking about, unclear what, good things coming out of this, and I answered that as soon as a company take a route like this bad business plan, they stagnate.

you're not thinking clearly, you're seeing predators where there are only shadows, it's fear, not reality.

Yes, I´m thinking very clear with basic pattern recognition. You should check your survival senses, though, they don´t seem to work properly. Or, as I pointed out before, you may be very blind, young/naive or, well, see above.

[vurt]

how is komplete a form of sub? i haven't updated for a few cycles, still have access to all my ni synths

You were talking about, unclear what, good things coming out of this, and I answered that as soon as a company take a route like this bad business plan, they stagnate.

so as evidence you chose something that isn't a sub at all.

well done

[hebex]

so as evidence you chose something that isn't a sub at all.

well done

Bad take from you and in bad faith, you know it.

Look at the heading of this topic. We´ve talked about UVI for some pages now. And I´ve given Adobe Photoshop etc as an other example of bad things coming out of software subscriptions as a phenomenon. And when you started to talk about good things -- unclear what -- coming out of this bad and evil subscription business plan, I instead gave an example of how bad practices, not exactly sub specific but still something resembling a sub, corrupt companies and make them stagnate.

[LKBorg]

There will be other companies happily taking over from what was once theirs.

Ok, so my next analogy isn’t that complete takeover: I stopped using Adobe stuff where I could (and not be forced professionally) and am enjoying anything Affinity (Photo, Designer, Publisher) is making. Suck it Adobe, only it’s chockehold on the industry is keeping its market stance. Much like Microsoft: too big too fail (for now)

We might see it with NI/PA again, as they’re too big for now. But small companies that don’t follow any rent/subscribe to own model (like the nice swedes Kilohearts) will hopefully choke on their greed! (Well, I hope the same for the fat ones in the game like NI, but that needs to be seen)

And there is a HUGE difference between renting something for consuming business, or renting something like an excavator you might need once for your new garden project vs. renting tools you need on a daily basis or at least constantly. It’s a nuisance and ultimately will cost you more in the end by subscribing to a never ending “update cycle” fallacy.

Yes, you will always get the latest version but most ppl only see the shiny thing and if they really benefit from it. Some ppl still do fine on 5+ yr old software with no need to upgrade.

Leaves one last thing: cost benefit IF you need constant new versions. Even if, say after 5 yrs, the cost of upgrading the system might be the same as the subscription, there is the thing I don’t have running costs in the meantime (and those can add up FAST!) and even more so: I own the product and can use it whenever I want. With a f**king subscription I can’t. Only if I pay and if there’s a bad financial period due to… we’ll say a f**king pandemic, then hey, you can’t even use your music tools anymore to escape the dread, coz you can’t pay for them in that time. And worse: since you can’t use your tools anymore, you also can’t make new music or participate in those “musicians at home” streams to maybe cut off the hard edges a bit and earn something from your art!

Always buy the real product if you can folks and don’t give in to the false sweet talkers out there. Those companies aren’t your friends and won’t stay with you if you have a hard time as a musician!

So to every company going sub on tools:
I say choke on it and I won’t be your customer any longer, and I take my money to those who will value me as an artist and not just see a cash grabbing tool!

[digitalboytn]

The positive side to being railroaded into subscription models is that we do have a choice...

We don't have to accept their terms and conditions...

There are many developers who are not over burdened by corporate structures and bean counters who do not focus primarily on the $$$...

Support the smaller,innovative coders who are creating so many great tools for us to make music with...

Even some of the freebies available out there are really good...

What the big companies will learn,is that you don't need overpriced office space and a top heavy corporate structure to code soft synths and effects...

The executives need to to justify their positions and they look to the end user to pay for that,but hopefully we are all getting a little smarter and by voting with our wallets,we are telling them that the time is up and it's no longer business as usual