UVI go subscription!

[otristan]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents:

If you compare with Adobe, (I own a Creative Cloud photography FWIW), the subscription is clearly not advantageous as the one year subscription is almost as expensive as the perpetual version of Lightroom was.

In case of UVI, you get the full catalog and new addition almost every month.
If Falcon renting was 24$ per month, you would be in adobe case and yes that would be damn expensive.

Still, I get that this is still pricey for a lot of people, not for what you get where IMHO this is great value, but in terms of monthly budget.
We still support perpetual and plan on keeping it because it make sense for a lot of people.
Subscription is just another way to consume. Don't like it, just don't use it, but it pleases a lot of other people.

And if all other company are doing it, we had to do it. Not because we wanted to, but because if everybody is doing it and if you don't, it's going to be complicated business wise. Check DVD sales when Netflix, Disney+ and VOD are there, don't think it's going great.

In terms of maintenance, bug fixes and maintenance, update have always been free at UVI. No update plan whatsoever.
And this is not gonna change.

[hebex]

And if all other company are doing it, we had to do it. Not because we wanted to, but because if everybody is doing it and if you don't, it's going to be complicated business wise.

Pardon me, but this is exactly what I was afraid the subscription model is all about.

So UVI does this out of corporate pressure and fear, not out of care for the musician.

So it´s not good business practice in good faith and good spirit, it´s bad practice out of an EVIL business plan that big business hope that "everybody" will be doing.

This is about following the sheep herd to the butcher. Wanna get along for the ride?

[rasmusklump]

Do you have a life?

[otristan]

Pardon me, but this is exactly what I was afraid the subscription model is all about.

So UVI does this out of corporate pressure and fear, not out of care for the musician.

So it´s not good business practice in good faith and good spirit, it´s bad practice out of an EVIL business plan that big business hope that "everybody" will be doing.

This is about following the sheep herd to the butcher. Wanna get along for the ride?

It's both actually.
Still, at some point, you need to put food on your table. A dead company do not care much for musician.
But caring for users is listening to everybody. For people that want sub and those who don't.
As opposed to what you think, some people want sub and it's not only a market pressure.

[noiseboyuk]

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

[hebex]

It's both actually.
Still, at some point, you need to put food on your table. A dead company do not care much for musician.
But caring for users is listening to everybody. For people that want sub and those who don't.
As opposed to what you think, some people want sub and it's not only a market pressure.

No. The sub model, once implemented, will be the only product available, because "everybody is doing it". But, then, why don´t you instead stop joining the sheep herd that makes it so in the first place?

Or, perhaps you want to qualify your statement? That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub? No, I didn´t think so. In other words, there is no reason to take anything you say here seriously, I´m sorry.

It´s not about putting food on the table. It´s not about choice. It´s about greedy, corporate and EVIL business practice.

[hebex]

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

You advocate taking away basic functionality in VST music production and try to sell it to KvR as a feature. Talk about choice. Give me a break.

[noiseboyuk]

You advocate taking away basic functionality in VST music production and try to sell it to KvR as a feature. Talk about choice. Give me a break.

The point is - oh beacon of joy - that if you choose to sub, rendering audio is the way to go.

Arguably, we should all be doing this anyway. It's the foolproof way to go back to any project, and it keeps the CPU down.

Anyway, I'll leave you and your happiness to it.

[hebex]

[rendering audio] ... we should all be doing this anyway. It's the foolproof way to go back to any project, and it keeps the CPU down.

Fine, but your remark is a non sequitur. That´s not what this discussion is about.

[hebex]

I´m convinced a lot of people in KvR, if not the overwhelming majority, don´t want get all their work in progress destroyed, as I explained above, and have to be forced to render audio all the time, because of bad practice in form of subscriptions.

I don´t think that those who have paid for the products, want to be robbed of their paid property and be forced to go sub instead.

And I don´t think most people want that if you complain, because of the sub business model the company can just pull the plug and basically all you have done will be gone. In other words, that they have you by the balls and it´s their way or the highway. Giving away all control to the company, don´t tend to serve the consumer.

VST production -- among other things -- going down the dystopia route, where you will own nothing, big corp will own everything, and your future is enslavement and serfdom, is plain evil. It there ever was a rebel cause and something to fight against, that is it.

[nightjar]

That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub?

This is a rather warped view of reality.

There is no guarantee of residual value in the software you purchase. The gamble of residual value is the choice you made when you bought it.

This is one of the advantages of subscription, it mitigates this gamble.

[otristan]

Or, perhaps you want to qualify your statement? That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub? No, I didn´t think so. In other words, there is no reason to take anything you say here seriously, I´m sorry.

The perpetual licence that you have bought will still be perpetual no matter what.
I don't get your rationale, but in any case I'm not here to convince you personally, just correcting your FUD.

[hebex]

That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub?

This is a rather warped view of reality.

There is no guarantee of residual value in the software you purchase. The gamble of residual value is the choice you made when you bought it.

It´s rather a warped view of reality to believe that a sales representative from UVI, saying that already bought products from UVI still always will be supported after they turn subscription model, is something to take seriously, since he most likely won´t hold himself or UVI responsible if it turns out that he is lying.

So it´s rather a "gamble" to believe that he is telling the truth, and IMO an even worse "gamble" -- morally -- to then try to convince uninitiated to this discussion that the sub business model is nothing to worry about.

[vurt]

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

or, do all your composition with host plugins, then when you are happy, one month rental, use the midi to track the fancy synths, burn, done.

like when we used to use shitty cheap instruments for rehearsals, then hire nice stuff for the studio

or, just don't subscribe.


i think some people are very lucky, if they can look at this, and think it's evil. they have clearly never experienced evil.

[hebex]

Or, perhaps you want to qualify your statement? That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub? No, I didn´t think so. In other words, there is no reason to take anything you say here seriously, I´m sorry.

The perpetual licence that you have bought will still be perpetual no matter what.
I don't get your rationale, but in any case I'm not here to convince you personally, just correcting your FUD.

Well keep trying, by all means, but it is sure as hell is not "corrected".