UVI go subscription!

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, I recently sold my Falcon license and generally have given up on UVI really going forward with innovation.
They could have gotten a much larger part of the Kontakt market IMO, but slow loading times and overall complacent development didn't really help.
The last interesting 3rd party developer using Falcon/Workstation now went with their own engine too (Virharmonic).

Many low hanging fruit like Midi Out (their LUA scripting is very well done and they have great sequencers etc. in Falcon), serious surround support, core support for MPE and a ton of other stuff just didn't happen since 2015 when it came out.

So once again it looks like subscription is a kind of retirement plan for fat old companies that no longer have the edge but sit on a huge portfolio instead.
And I find I'm just not interested.

CS6 was my last Adobe collection.
Now I do Kompletely without them.

Cheers,

Tom

[hebex]

People, please don´t be shortsighted in the VST-market and don´t take the bait of, at the moment perhaps, a bit cheaper subscription business model you are offered, than the VST-instrument you buy to own.

(Yeah, there is a licensing technicality, but you know what I mean in this topic, sub vs "owning".)

VST-instruments are meant for music making, not to consume like magazines or Netflix. Any company that mixes this up, reveals the little understanding and respect for the musician it has.

Don´t take the bait of evil subscription business models that help big money monopolize the market, treat us like cattle, corrupt and destroy, which has happened to so many industries where big business have sunken their teeth and where people haven´t thought ahead before it was too late.

Please support honest companies instead that let you own your VST-product. That way you support reasonably fair business practices, where consumers have a say and where companies have some accountability and some incentives to treat you and the rest of us consumers with respect.

Thanks

[Trancit]

What makes you think you can come here and tell us to shut up and try to bully around those of us who don´t want to comply to the new VST-production serfscription business model, that big money execs through their paid shills try to ram down our throats, whether we want it or not?

Simple answer: Because you are just accusing without the slightest evidence, repeating the same nonsense over and over again like a broken record and you annoy!
Don´t you think 20-30 posts basically including the exact same content is more than enough to point out what you think...
I don´t know where you grew up but in my region this is spamming...

There is a legitimate concern for the consumer interests in this matter. Some of us use our brains and don´t want to hand over control of VST-music production to the corrosive force of big money, but instead want to make people aware of and use consumer collective power to vote for the right thing with our wallets.

This has nothing to do with using your brain... quite the opposite...
If you really would you would know there is just one way to show them your middle finger: Stop using their products and move on...

The only way to change business models is to boycot them... no company or their products are irreplaceable and there will be always enough smaller developers going the indie way...

They will only change their models if they loose money but for sure not some people are telling some conspiracy theories in any forum talking about the evil money making factory...

Anyway... welcome to my foe list!

[noiseboyuk]

So go ahead and tell me about how we can get photoshop, pro-tools, and Antares autotune-vocodist permanent licenses?

You will have some choices from someone, but not necessarily the choices that you want.

One by one…

Photoshop isn’t music-making. If we start citing other sectors, we may as well add in Tinder.

Pro Tools. This is one of two examples over ten years. 2 in 10 years. And if you own a permanent license, you can still use it, and indeed get a reinstatement code to get up to date further down the line. So if the concern is getting your existing license eaten up by the subs machine, it doesn’t apply.

Auto-tune. Auto-tune Pro is a permanent license. Yes the is a subs-only version, but if I read correctly it’s just Pro bundled with some other products. So that’s just an alternate model. Like UVI and everyone else.

[ghettosynth]

So go ahead and tell me about how we can get photoshop, pro-tools, and Antares autotune-vocodist permanent licenses?

You will have some choices from someone, but not necessarily the choices that you want.

One by one…

Photoshop isn’t music-making. If we start citing other sectors, we may as well add in Tinder.

Pro Tools. This is one of two examples over ten years. 2 in 10 years. And if you own a permanent license, you can still use it, and indeed get a reinstatement code to get up to date further down the line. So if the concern is getting your existing license eaten up by the subs machine, it doesn’t apply.

The point was a rejoinder that companies will sell you the license if people want it. My response was to point out that when companies fully embrace the sub model that this is false. That it was not an audio company is only relevant to you because you want to move goalposts in alignment with your narrative. The important and salient point is that this shift has been happening in prosumer and consumer software for some time and Adobe is considered the market leader in transitioning this type of software to a subscription model.

Auto-tune. Auto-tune Pro is a permanent license. Yes the is a subs-only version, but if I read correctly it’s just Pro bundled with some other products. So that’s just an alternate model. Like UVI and everyone else.

Antares autotune-vocodist is available by sub only. Please pay attention to the details so that you have some chance of actually understanding the conversation.

Including either updates, or even full products as subscription only is a key way of pushing people to subscription and is a key part of how this industry shift is occurring.

Observing that only two companies, I guess three now, have some products which are now subscription only doesn't define a trend only demonstrates that you don't understand how to observe trends.

The number of audio companies that have introduced sub models in the last year or two is quite significant in terms of observing a trend towards offering subscription models. The secondary observation of tactics that such as sub-only benefits demonstrates the interest in pushing customers towards subscription and away from perpetual licenses. That it hasn't yielded many sub-only products yet does not negate the trend. In fact, quite the contrary, had that already happened then we would know that the trend towards that goal was long past.

Industry analysts have been discussing this trend for the last decade or so. That you're not aware of it or think that because you can narrow the goalposts to your trivial conditions doesn't negate the trend.

I'm going to predict that we will see fewer bundle sales this black Friday and even fewer over the next few years as these firms that now have subs but traditionally offered bundle sales will try to shift customer to their subs. What I expect that you will see is discounts on that first year subscription.

[hebex]

What makes you think you can come here and tell us to shut up and try to bully around those of us who don´t want to comply to the new VST-production serfscription business model, that big money execs through their paid shills try to ram down our throats, whether we want it or not?

Simple answer: Because you are just accusing without the slightest evidence, repeating the same nonsense over and over again like a broken record and you annoy!
Don´t you think 20-30 posts basically including the exact same content is more than enough to point out what you think...
I don´t know where you grew up but in my region this is spamming...

Funny, I think the same of people like you, sounding like broken records and presenting no "evidence" or logic to backup what you are saying. How many posts have the sub-supporters in this topic nagged the same arguments over and over again? It´s fine by me, I guess it´s the way a forum like KvR works, not everybody care to read through by now 14 pages in a topic so there is inevitably going to be reruns...

So I annoy you by not giving up so easily? You seem to have some issue who can´t handle someone who has the opposing view to you and who does not back down. Some bully tendency there from you, don´t you think?

There is a legitimate concern for the consumer interests in this matter. Some of us use our brains and don´t want to hand over control of VST-music production to the corrosive force of big money, but instead want to make people aware of and use consumer collective power to vote for the right thing with our wallets.

This has nothing to do with using your brain... quite the opposite...
If you really would you would know there is just one way to show them your middle finger: Stop using their products and move on...

The only way to change business models is to boycot them...

Well, that is exactly what me and others are trying to spread the message about in this topic, to inform people and ask them to boycot bad business practices like subscription of VST instruments. So you seem to contradict yourself there a bit, don´t you think?

no company or their products are irreplaceable and there will be always enough smaller developers going the indie way...

Not really. Read the informative posts above about how Adobe has abused its market dominance and treated its customers poorly, just because people didn´t think ahead and protest before it got too big and arrogant and stopped caring about its customers. Still, with respect to Affinity and maybe others, there doesn´t seem to be any real substitute to Adobe yet, the customers let the company get too big and cocky. And you have other examples, Google, etc. Too big and too powerful and too evil to topple in the foreseeable future, I´m afraid. And if there is no monopoly, there is always oligopoly lurking around the corner, something perhaps even worse.

They will only change their models if they loose money but for sure not some people are telling some conspiracy theories in any forum talking about the evil money making factory...

That´s your opinion. More and more people start to view "conspiracy theories" simply as reconnaissance of what is about to happen some 6-12 months before it shows up for everybody to see. Others see "conspiracy theories" as two words by which politicians and companies etc try to defend themselves from legitimate suspicions of corruption. IMO it´s often about pattern recognition and observing trends, if a lot of people obviously lied there using the same language as someone is using here, that could/should be a red flag to take into account.

And yes, the serfscription business plans for VST-instruments are evil. The more customers realizing that, the more customers may pass the sub offers, the more money the sub-companies will lose, and hopefully they´ll learn and eventually skip the sub business model. And exactly what some of us hope will come true if enough hear and spread the word, and, very strangely, what you criticize me for -- so you seem to contradict yourself here again, don´t you think?

Anyway... welcome to my foe list!

Are you threatening me in some way? I rest my case, as I said, some bully tendencies there from you. I´m sure everybody in this forum loves a bully.

[nightjar]

Fast-forward to the year 2025... there are 5 dominant music creation subscription ecosystems to provide music making people with creative tools, resources and related services.

What current companies/products will have combined in some fashion to create these 5 dominant ecosystems?

1 - Avid + ?
2 - Soundwide + DAW + ?
3 - Fender/Presonus + ?
4 - Apple Logic + ?
5 - ?

If 5 is the number to play this guessing game with... what are the thoughts in the round table of this oddball thread.

Where would UVI land in this game? I'd guess with Avid.

[seangm]

I own UVI stuff and I don't pay a cent for subscription. The title of this thread is misleading.

[SoftSynthLover99]

One thing about UVI as a company though, they always do right by the customer. Never had a bad customer support interaction personally, and they gave us free upgrades to Falcon which most companies would easily charge for, so if anyone can make the subscription model a real value for customers, it would be UVI.

And doing some research I’m now about 50/50 on the sub model being positive or negative. Some trends like Antares offering new plugins exclusively on subscription, and holding off important updates to perpetual products, are definitely cause for concern.

My concern would not be them taking away old licenses you own, but about releasing lets say Falcon 3.0 as a subscription only plugin with no option for perpetual.

Could someone at UVI clarify if SonicPass will ever get “exclusive” content only available in the subscription, or will perpetual licenses for everything always exist alongside the subscription? That’s a very important thing to know.

[soulata]

also, this thread isnt about those companies, its about uvi, who are offering both sub and perpetual licenses.

You brought up the point in a general context, so let's not start playing thread cop when your point gets shut down.

I am talking about how I feel about UVI going subscription. I think that it's part of a larger trend to move away from permanent licensing and that is certainly on topic in this general thread.

I think we all got your point by now.
It's valid but right now UVI offers both permanent and subs.

Life is still ok. If you're not in a warzone or skint...

k

[noiseboyuk]

Antares autotune-vocodist is available by sub only.

Yup, I hadn't seen that, and fair dos. Although it's only one part of their range, that definitely counts and I wasn't aware of it, so there's now a third example over a decade.

A crucial point to make here - people (especially on this thread) seem terribly worried that their existing licenses will stop working one day. So far there isn't a single case of that being true. The worse case is Adobe, because although you can still use it, you can't make that license current and might one day be stuck because of OS changes. For Avid however you can update, Antares isn't an issue either there. Vocodist is a new exclusive product, so all the current permanent licenses out there are still ongoing (with the caveat that, as with any developer, older products might get dropped anyway, but that's nothing to do with subs).

As ever on the internet in general and KVR in particular, there's just shrieking hysteria rather than measured debate. I have no music-making subscriptions and don't intend to ever get any. I'm not a fan, it makes little sense to me in this sector in my circumstances. However as long as it doesn't effect what I have, as far as I'm concerned every company can release subs packages and good luck to them.

For those who are super-agitated about this, I get the argument - if we allow them to get away with this madness, then one day we'll wake up and no-one will be selling permanent licenses for anything any more. As in life, this is a silly crude slippery-slope argument that doesn't have any relation to the real world. It's pretty simple - if people (like me) don't like subs, don't use them. There are an awful lot of us, which means there is a market that will be served. I see no evidence that everything I have already won't carry on just fine, and I know in future there will always be people to sell my shiny new permanent things.

[aMUSEd]

I always thought UVI Portal was the best download manager tool but the new version is a step backwards imho

[Splidge]

The SonicPass subscription is very prominent in the new UVI Portal. It suggests that UVI would like it to be the preferred option.

[mcbpete]

I always thought UVI Portal was the best download manager tool but the new version is a step backwards imho

Definitely agree with this - Akin to back in the day with the Winamp 2 -> Winamp 3 upgrade. Adding too much fluff slowing down the core functionality (of downloading and updating in the case of the new Portal)

[hebex]

"people (especially on this thread) seem terribly worried that their existing licenses will stop working one day. So far there isn't a single case of that being true."

"shrieking hysteria rather than measured debate"

"as long as it doesn't effect what I have, as far as I'm concerned every company can release subs packages and good luck to them"

"For those who are super-agitated about this"

"to get away with this madness"

"a silly crude slippery-slope argument that doesn't have any relation to the real world"

"I see no evidence that everything I have already won't carry on just fine, and I know in future there will always be people to sell my shiny new permanent things."

So many shorts sighted comments here, on and on and on.

You say you haven´t seen any "evidence" of the warnings coming from some of us, so the warnings are "crude slippery-slope argument that doesn't have any relation to the real world".

So we should wait till the plan is implemented and it´s too late, and you have that "evidence" you need before you start to think and react? You still don´t seem to get it how these things work, no matter how many times it is explained to you. No sub-company will ever tell you up front "of course we are lying to you, of course we will tell you here in this forum that we will never go only sub, even if that is the long term plan when enough suckers like you have taken the bait". It´s the nature of the game.

You sound like "Yeah, what about that 7 meter python snake slinging itself around you, it still hasn´t started swallowing you yet -- so therefore there is no evidence of it ever swallowing you. Stop whining, you have nothing to worry about!"

I don´t care if you call the warnings given in this forum topic "shrieking hysteria" and "madness", that we are "super agitated" and "extremely worried". Call it what you willl, but the very exaggerated words you use there hardly contribute to keeping this a measured debate.

Still, the only defence consumers have against bad and evil business practices -- like implementing subscriptions for VST-production tools -- is consumer VIGILANCE.