CLAP: The New Audio Plug-in Standard (by U-he, Bitwig and others)

[moss]

If a free & opensource vsthost like Kushview's Elements becomes Clap enabled more people can test clap plugins

Or download Reaper (eventually soon?) and test.

Or download Bitwig 4.3. Since it is out of Beta now everyone can test drive it.

[teilo]

If a free & opensource vsthost like Kushview's Elements becomes Clap enabled more people can test clap plugins

Or download Reaper (eventually soon?) and test.

Or download Bitwig 4.3. Since it is out of Beta now everyone can test drive it.

For the Linux crowd, Qtractor supports CLAP.

[k2006]

opensource host will be useful for developers to debug host side issues.

[damondahl]

looks awesome, but will it actually be useful?

[Tj Shredder]

looks awesome, but will it actually be useful?

Yes…

[DRMR]

I use Qtractor all the time, it's one of my favorite DAWs (although I actually never use it for hosting plugins. its audio and midi routing is just extremely convenient).

[pdxindy]

looks awesome, but will it actually be useful?

Yes…

Indeed... it already is!

[pdxindy]

as a MPE addict, poly modulation is quite interesting. although i seem to use MPE more, than poly modulation (even in soft modulars, although not quite true..).

The ability to use Bitwig modulators for polyphonic modulation in CLAP plugins is great for MPE. For example, there are a bunch of parameters in ACE and Diva that cannot be modulated via MPE. Now with the CLAP versions of ACE and Diva, you can do that.

Also, you can now do interesting stuff like adding a per voice Bitwig Steps modulator to add a modulation sequence to a parameter like filter cutoff and then use per note MPE pressure (aftertouch) to only bring in that sequence on specific notes as you press down.

The MPE possibilities have increased significantly with CLAP version of the u-he synths.

[lhoyd1]

Reading the list of the first supporters makes me wonder: where the hell is Ableton in this? Let's hope they're not sleeping on CLAP.

No worries, there's communication. We had not had the time to address all their questions before today, so we've suggested to meet in a few weeks.

Just reading this whole thread - Ableton news is good to hear - I've just moved to Ableton (from Maschine - which is like opening the curtains to let in the light!), so am glad that Ableton will (hopefully) support CLAP!

[Enrize]

So i've tried Vital in CLAP format and can't get note pitch/poly modulation/voice stacking to work...Am i doing something wrong?

[Urs]

No, afaik Matt hasn’t implemented this yet. Poly Modulation, or Param Modulation is a complex matter. I‘d expect plug-ins to first do general CLAP support, and when that’s done, incrementally add those kinds of features over time.

[Trensharo]

I just tried Bitwig (do have the 8-Track version) and I just don't like it. The Fischer Price UI puts me off. It's just, too much to have to look at for hours on end. The colors are far too saturated. There are too many bright colors... everywhere.

One thing I do like is how well they have mapped the Maschine MK3/Plus. That mapping/integration is ... very impressive. Better than everything except Maschine 2 itself.

I cannot bring myself to care about CLAP. I feel like it's a bit DOA for the moment, since it will force developers to support a fourth plug-in format. If there are any advantages to using it, then they will likely be zeroed out by "minimum effort" ports the way some developers wrap VST2 plug-ins and then release them as VST3 plug-ins that don't offer any of the benefits VST3 is intended to bring. If that is the case, then why should anyone choose to use it over VST or AU; to "make a statement?"

At the very least, VST3 (Cubase/Nuendo/WaveLab), AudioUnits (Logic Pro/GarageBand/Final Cut Pro) and AAX (Pro Tools/Media Composer) are too important to drop any time soon. So, CLAP is basically like MAS or any other vendor-specific plug-in format, at this point, and developers are still getting up to speed on VST3 - which affects innumerable plug-in hosts and far more users than CLAP support will for at least the next 5-10 years.

[Trensharo]

I notice that Steinberg have very coincidental marketing for today. They seem to be missing a really cool format though

Asking Steinberg to support CLAP is like asking Avid or Apple to support VST.

[Trensharo]

Well, there were very productive talks with NI in the beginning, but they declined support for CLAP early on due to their plans to move to VST3. Judging by the pace of that transition, I would really like to talk to this engineer again who raised that point.

It surprised me then and it surprises me now. Because obviously NKS - a major asset of NI - is tied to a deprecated format and obviously the demise of that format has therefore cost NI an amount of money and shareholder value that is certainly unprecedented in the industry. It seems obvious to me that no other plug-in manufacturer has lost more due to this particular decision of another company.

We reached out back then because we were sure that NI would be working on their own format to proceed, and thus it would make sense to collaborate. Apparently they didn't, but still they wouldn't - yet, I sincerely hope they eventually will. CLAP would make so much sense, it's beyond me why they're not on board yet.

There is an active thread on the NI machine forum full of dissatisfied users waiting for VST3 support and there is not so much as a whisper from NI. As a Maschine user I find it deeply disappointing they have yet to implement VST3 support. And to hear they aren't even investigating other options makes you wonder what they are up to? The pace of the developments at NI is glacial for such a big organisation. Their latest sound wide offerrings from Izotope are VST3 only so you can't even use them in the Maschine ecosystem. Are they going to become the next blackberry or Nokia of our times, relegated to selling soundpacks for depreciated products?

Maschine and Komplete Kontrol support VST3. What they don't support, are 3rd party VST3.

Look at Super 8. It's VST3-only, but still supported for NKS and Loading in both Komplete Kontrol and Maschine. All Native Instruments VST3s are supported in Komplete Kontrol and Maschine. The lack of VST3 support is intentionally, and likely due to them being too conservative and wanting to avoid any issues with VST3 plug-ins in the software.

VST3 has been a huge issue in some DAWs, like those from MAGIX and MOTU (well... VST2 is just as terrible with DP's plug-in scanner). Native Instruments seems to have taken the "Caution is better than Regret" approach to this.

Chances are high that they've had "unlocked" versions of their software running VST3 plug-ins and testing compatibility with a wide range of 3rd party offerings for quite a while, now.

[Trensharo]

NI is working on HiDPI support across the product range (which is huge). Newer products (Mod Pack, Crush Pack, Raum, GR6, MX) do support HiDPI.

10 years too late!

I don´t support a company which is 10 years late of what they can do for me...
If it would be this only...ok... but now clap support points into exactly the same behaviour... and many other of their decisions and actions...

I am sorry, but for me NI is one of the most selfish companies on the market and as I said... no money from me...
I am not against business... everybody has to make a living...but how to do business is the key and even before now the clap thingie their offer for Komplete Now was showing exactly their mindset for me... this is nothing but an insolence and an insult...

10 years ago, 1080p still hadn't overtaken 720/768p as the standard on many devices. Lol. Native Instruments' UIs were not a problem back then. Those UIs didn't really become a problem until 4K/5K screens started becoming more popular. Even on 25" QHD display @ 100% scaling, they are fine.

They are a problem these days, to people with HiDPI displays. But to say it's "10 years too late" is a bit of an exaggeration.

And people expecting them to jump on a 4th plug-in format and treat it as if there is no cost in doing so ... and as if the benefits far outweighs the costs... is incredibly disingenuous.

I'm will not defend NI, as maintenance has been sidelined by new product development (obviously); but I will defend common sense.