Why is Izotope Ozone still giving my project latency, even when its plugin is turned off in Ableton's master chain?

[spnc]

Using M1 Mac latest version of Ableton and Ozone.

I have to remove the plugin entirely out of the project to get rid of the latency, why does Ableton doesn't see that Ozone is turned off?

What I like to do is as my track is near completion to already very basically 'master' it with Ozone to bring the track its loudness already.

I have noticed that, of course Ozone will introduce latency (on projects with a lof of plugins in it), that's fine with me and I had in my mind to turn off Ozone then to get working in my project.
But what annoys me is that when you click the Off button of the plugin in Ableton, the latency is still there! I have to save my Ozone preset (to make sure I'm not gonna lose it), group the Ozone plugin and take it out of my project, back in Ableton folder for later use.

This is totally counter-intuitive. Why does Ableton think Ozone is still 'active' even when turned off?
I'm wasting my time every day because of this, since I have to constantly take the plugin off and back on in my master chain when I want to use it.

I'd like to keep the plugin turned off without latency, and turn it on from time to time to check my 'master' (with latency fine then).

Anyone experiencing this?

Cheers.

[Guenon]

In Ableton Live, deactivating a plugin will keep its latency intact. The idea of the on/off button is to conserve CPU resources, and a lot in Live is designed with seamless live operation in mind. If the latency changed when turning stuff off and on, you would get a timing stutter in the output while doing that during a live performance.

[Zipede]

duplicate post

[Dirk Diggler]

Ozone is meant to be applied to master buss tracks, not as a live tracking tool.

It should be the last tool in the mastering process. Render and done.

[Zipede]

Using M1 Mac latest version of Ableton and Ozone.

I have to remove the plugin entirely out of the project to get rid of the latency, why does Ableton doesn't see that Ozone is turned off?

What I like to do is as my track is near completion to already very basically 'master' it with Ozone to bring the track its loudness already.

I have noticed that, of course Ozone will introduce latency (on projects with a lof of plugins in it), that's fine with me and I had in my mind to turn off Ozone then to get working in my project.
But what annoys me is that when you click the Off button of the plugin in Ableton, the latency is still there! I have to save my Ozone preset (to make sure I'm not gonna lose it), group the Ozone plugin and take it out of my project, back in Ableton folder for later use.

This is totally counter-intuitive. Why does Ableton think Ozone is still 'active' even when turned off?
I'm wasting my time every day because of this, since I have to constantly take the plugin off and back on in my master chain when I want to use it.

I'd like to keep the plugin turned off without latency, and turn it on from time to time to check my 'master' (with latency fine then).

Anyone experiencing this?

Cheers.

To save closing the plugin you can turn off Ozone's Delay Compensation.

Click on the Settings cog wheel, then on the General Tab click on Delay Compensation, then uncheck the Enable Delay Compensation box.

[PieBerger]

This is just how Ableton works unfortunately and you either learn to live with it or you move to another DAW.

[spnc]

This is just how Ableton works unfortunately and you either learn to live with it or you move to another DAW.

No shit Sherlock... you think? lol you must have a Phd on the subject to be able to come to this conclusion on your own!

Since your answer is not really adding value I'm reposting the compelling one I got on Gearspace if anyone is stumbling upon this topic one day.

https://gearspace.com/board/mastering-f ... leton.html

It's usually implemented like this in DAWs deliberately, so you can toggle or automate bypass etc smoothly, without the audio signal jumping around because of having to adjust and reconfigure the audio stream latency when you do (which often can't be done without interruption).

If you want to remove the latency, you usually have to remove the plugin, bypassing alone isn't enough. Logic has the same implementation.

Ozone is the only plugin acting like this out of my 600 other plugins though.

Every other plugin (instrument of effect) I use immediately removes its CPU use (which tells me latency too, if they had any, even though I don't think I ever experienced latency with plugins before) when I switch them off.

Ozone has an extremely high latency I think, so it's a lot more noticeable.

Most plugins are either latency-free, or use a small amount, eg 16 or 32 samples, so you won't notice the added latency generally.

CPU use will of course stop when you bypass a plugin. But as far as latency goes, it's not down to the plugin, it's down to the host with how it manages the latency a plugin tells a host it needs. When you load a plugin, it tells the host the latency required and the host compensates accordingly. That latency calculation will only be recalculated if you remove the plugin completely.

There are I think some hosts that implement recalculating the latency when you bypass a plugin, but it does make bypassing, and especially automating bypass, extremely annoying if the plugin requires any noticeable amount of latency...

It is important to know that you cannot get “latency free” with a more powerful computer. The latency of a plugin is a fixed (well, most of the time) property of the plugin, because some algorithms cannot work without a specific amount of samples delayed. It is set by the plugin developer and no amount of CPU will change that.

Some plugins allow a “low/zero latency” mode.

Some hosts (e.g. Cubase) offer an additional “disable” mode for plugins n addition to the common “bypass”, which will completely remove the plugin from the signal path, latency compensation included. Maybe Live has a similar function, dunno.

[spnc]

Using M1 Mac latest version of Ableton and Ozone.

I have to remove the plugin entirely out of the project to get rid of the latency, why does Ableton doesn't see that Ozone is turned off?

What I like to do is as my track is near completion to already very basically 'master' it with Ozone to bring the track its loudness already.

I have noticed that, of course Ozone will introduce latency (on projects with a lof of plugins in it), that's fine with me and I had in my mind to turn off Ozone then to get working in my project.
But what annoys me is that when you click the Off button of the plugin in Ableton, the latency is still there! I have to save my Ozone preset (to make sure I'm not gonna lose it), group the Ozone plugin and take it out of my project, back in Ableton folder for later use.

This is totally counter-intuitive. Why does Ableton think Ozone is still 'active' even when turned off?
I'm wasting my time every day because of this, since I have to constantly take the plugin off and back on in my master chain when I want to use it.

I'd like to keep the plugin turned off without latency, and turn it on from time to time to check my 'master' (with latency fine then).

Anyone experiencing this?

Cheers.

To save closing the plugin you can turn off Ozone's Delay Compensation.

Click on the Settings cog wheel, then on the General Tab click on Delay Compensation, then uncheck the Enable Delay Compensation box.

Haaa great I didn't think of that gonna try cheers.

[PieBerger]

This is just how Ableton works unfortunately and you either learn to live with it or you move to another DAW.

No shit Sherlock... you think? lol you must have a Phd on the subject to be able to come to this conclusion on your own!

Since your answer is not really adding value I'm reposting the compelling one I got on Gearspace if anyone is stumbling upon this topic one day.

https://gearspace.com/board/mastering-f ... leton.html

It's usually implemented like this in DAWs deliberately, so you can toggle or automate bypass etc smoothly, without the audio signal jumping around because of having to adjust and reconfigure the audio stream latency when you do (which often can't be done without interruption).

If you want to remove the latency, you usually have to remove the plugin, bypassing alone isn't enough. Logic has the same implementation.

Ozone is the only plugin acting like this out of my 600 other plugins though.

Every other plugin (instrument of effect) I use immediately removes its CPU use (which tells me latency too, if they had any, even though I don't think I ever experienced latency with plugins before) when I switch them off.

Ozone has an extremely high latency I think, so it's a lot more noticeable.

Most plugins are either latency-free, or use a small amount, eg 16 or 32 samples, so you won't notice the added latency generally.

CPU use will of course stop when you bypass a plugin. But as far as latency goes, it's not down to the plugin, it's down to the host with how it manages the latency a plugin tells a host it needs. When you load a plugin, it tells the host the latency required and the host compensates accordingly. That latency calculation will only be recalculated if you remove the plugin completely.

There are I think some hosts that implement recalculating the latency when you bypass a plugin, but it does make bypassing, and especially automating bypass, extremely annoying if the plugin requires any noticeable amount of latency...

It is important to know that you cannot get “latency free” with a more powerful computer. The latency of a plugin is a fixed (well, most of the time) property of the plugin, because some algorithms cannot work without a specific amount of samples delayed. It is set by the plugin developer and no amount of CPU will change that.

Some plugins allow a “low/zero latency” mode.

Some hosts (e.g. Cubase) offer an additional “disable” mode for plugins n addition to the common “bypass”, which will completely remove the plugin from the signal path, latency compensation included. Maybe Live has a similar function, dunno.

It is what is it my friend, no amount in deep analysis is going to change how the audio engine functions at the fundamental level. Ableton is an amazing DAW but it is also total garbage when it comes to stuff like this; the Plugin Delay Compensation is also potato, for example.

You literally have to suck it up it (and use the workaround you already have in place) or move on (like I did). If you absolutely cannot continue to work with this limitation, but you want a similar workflow/creative environment, then I recommend you try Bitwig because when you disable a device (Toggle Active) it completely removes it from the audio engine thereby ignoring any latency reported.

[spnc]

This is just how Ableton works unfortunately and you either learn to live with it or you move to another DAW.

No shit Sherlock... you think? lol you must have a Phd on the subject to be able to come to this conclusion on your own!

Since your answer is not really adding value I'm reposting the compelling one I got on Gearspace if anyone is stumbling upon this topic one day.

https://gearspace.com/board/mastering-f ... leton.html

It's usually implemented like this in DAWs deliberately, so you can toggle or automate bypass etc smoothly, without the audio signal jumping around because of having to adjust and reconfigure the audio stream latency when you do (which often can't be done without interruption).

If you want to remove the latency, you usually have to remove the plugin, bypassing alone isn't enough. Logic has the same implementation.

Ozone is the only plugin acting like this out of my 600 other plugins though.

Every other plugin (instrument of effect) I use immediately removes its CPU use (which tells me latency too, if they had any, even though I don't think I ever experienced latency with plugins before) when I switch them off.

Ozone has an extremely high latency I think, so it's a lot more noticeable.

Most plugins are either latency-free, or use a small amount, eg 16 or 32 samples, so you won't notice the added latency generally.

CPU use will of course stop when you bypass a plugin. But as far as latency goes, it's not down to the plugin, it's down to the host with how it manages the latency a plugin tells a host it needs. When you load a plugin, it tells the host the latency required and the host compensates accordingly. That latency calculation will only be recalculated if you remove the plugin completely.

There are I think some hosts that implement recalculating the latency when you bypass a plugin, but it does make bypassing, and especially automating bypass, extremely annoying if the plugin requires any noticeable amount of latency...

It is important to know that you cannot get “latency free” with a more powerful computer. The latency of a plugin is a fixed (well, most of the time) property of the plugin, because some algorithms cannot work without a specific amount of samples delayed. It is set by the plugin developer and no amount of CPU will change that.

Some plugins allow a “low/zero latency” mode.

Some hosts (e.g. Cubase) offer an additional “disable” mode for plugins n addition to the common “bypass”, which will completely remove the plugin from the signal path, latency compensation included. Maybe Live has a similar function, dunno.

It is what is it my friend, no amount in deep analysis is going to change how the audio engine functions at the fundamental level. Ableton is an amazing DAW but it is also total garbage when it comes to stuff like this; the Plugin Delay Compensation is also potato, for example.

You literally have to suck it up it (and use the workaround you already have in place) or move on (like I did). If you absolutely cannot continue to work with this limitation, but you want a similar workflow/creative environment, then I recommend you try Bitwig because when you disable a device (Toggle Active) it completely removes it from the audio engine thereby ignoring any latency reported.

Actually it's not so bad now, my new projects are lighter and somehow I don't notice it anymore, probably I was doing something wrong or my projects before were too busy/CPU consuming.

I'm sure Bitwig is great but the point of choosing a DAW is sticking to it. Live on its own + its plugins/extensions are so huge already that it would take me another lifetime to learn a new environment such as Bitwig, Logic or whatever I suppose.

If Ableton is the #1 choice for 90% of the market there must be a reason for it!

[lhoyd1]

I was noticing a large delay on my push2 - ie muting or soloing an instrument when using the relevant buttons on push
Turns out the culprit was, as stated above, Ozone 9 - even when deactivated
Removed it as it only needs to be used occasionally and push is nice and snappy again!

[middle_color]

...
But what annoys me is that when you click the Off button of the plugin in Ableton, the latency is still there!
...

The thing is that Ableton does not have true "off" or "disable" feature. It does "bypass" plugin.
Some other DAWs (Cubase, Bitwig) have 2 modes: bypass, disable. Where a "disable" completely disables plugin.
So yes, as you describe: save preset, delete plugin from project.