KVR Audio

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:22 am

Don't have particularly strong feeling about it either way; it's been smooth sailing for me, but I acknowledge that this isn't the case for all users. I try to avoid it if I can, but I have a few choice plugins like Soundtoys bundle and Blackhole that are nice to have.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:45 am

It's hard to avoid if you like UVI, Eventide, Soundtoys, Softube, AKAI etc...

Doe's ilok stop software being cracked- NO
Doe's ilok stop some people buying/using the software - YES (some people wont touch iLok)
Does iLok inconvenience the user- YES if they have loose access to the computer for any reason or loose/break dongle- I also had to buy a new dongle when ilok 2 came out and some software stopped supporting iLok 1

What are the advantages of ilok for an end user?

I am not against copy protection at all, the major defect with iLOK is the inability to unregister a computer ever, for any reason and having to rely on all of the individual licence owners re-issuing licences. If they fix this, it will be no better or worse than any other CP as far as I am concerned.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:30 am

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:45 am It's hard to avoid if you like UVI, Eventide, Soundtoys, Softube, AKAI etc...

Doe's ilok stop software being cracked- NO
Doe's ilok stop some people buying/using the software - YES (some people wont touch iLok)
Does iLok inconvenience the user- YES if they have loose access to the computer for any reason or loose/break dongle- I also had to buy a new dongle when ilok 2 came out and some software stopped supporting iLok 1

What are the advantages of ilok for an end user?

That the software is cheaper due to less warez being used (meaning that companies don't have to compensate for loss of sales). Because you completely forgot to mention the most important point, that the software will be harder to crack, thus there will be less warez, thus there will be less people downloading a warezed version. Because this world doesn't consist of decent people alone. I wish it would. Would make things a lot easier. Unfortunately, we don't live in such a fantastic dream world.

Or do your really think any company in the world would pay for something (in this case, a copy protection), which is worth nothing in the real world?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:33 am

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:17 am
chk071 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:06 am
SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:01 am
chk071 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:29 am I think the biggest issues is this attitude that people believe that the honest customer is being punished, or something like that. He isn't. My honest visitors aren't punished either, when they stand in front of my locked house door.
To continue your analogy, my O/S reset a couple of weeks ago left me without any licences from the companies that only issue '1 licence' key (do you only have 1 door key, no spare?!) and in the case of Zynaptiq I have not been able to 'get in the house' for weeks.
That's why you always should deactivate your licenses before erasing everything.
O/S reset was a 'surprise' not a planned activity!

I just cant see any technical reason why in 2022 you cant de-active a crashed/broken/stolen computer yourself (or even have iLok do it) to instantly renew your licences and stop the other computer being used. Seems so obvious and probably why other do it that way.

Well, for this, I agree. It should be possible. At the very least, there should be an easy mechanism to reset the activations. I don't see any issue with that, as it prevents the "missing" activations to be used anyway.

I was told that it is easy to reset activations when you're using a USB dongle (if that breaks, or gets lost). Thankfully, I haven't been in that situation yet.

If iLok would implement a system like Steinberg did tomorrow, I'd be glad to use it. Copy protection is always a hassle, and has to be as invisible as possible. But, I fully understand why companies do it. I lock my car and my house door as well. Highly recommended.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:39 am

Most software companies manage without iLok and seem to survive quite nicely without it. As I said, I am not against copy protection, all the software I use has some form of copy protection... I just don't see any reason why you cant deregister a machine your key is on especially when you only have 1 licence, seems archaic to me and I am currently without licence for Wormhole and Adaptiverb because of this policy. I have been using ilok for 15 years and this has happened to me twice (both dead computers still show on my ilok account with licences I cant access)

fde101 · Post by **fde101** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:44 am

The "normal" way of using iLok is the physical dongle which can be moved from the dead computer to a new working one; you can further improve license recoverability by subscribing to the zero downtime service they offer.

There is also the iLok Cloud option now for those licenses which allow it - that provides a "virtual dongle" over the internet, no hardware, no cost to the end user, no risk of the "dongle" being lost or stolen, can be "moved" from one computer to another (only open on one at a time, much as a physical dongle can only be inserted on one at a time), but requires you to be online while using it.

It depends in part on your specific use cases and situation.

Pros and cons, like with most everything else.

Personally, I try to make sure that none of my iLok license activations are to a specific computer - I always activate them on the physical dongle, or in some cases to the iLok cloud for limited/temporary testing purposes on a different computer from the one that the dongle is inserted into.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:48 am

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:39 am Most software companies manage without iLok and seem to survive quite nicely without it. As I said, I am not against copy protection, all the software I use has some form of copy protection... I just don't see any reason why you cant deregister a machine your key is on especially when you only have 1 licence, seems archaic to me and I am currently without licence for Wormhole and Adaptiverb because of this policy. I have been using ilok for 15 years and this has happened to me twice (both dead computers still show on my ilok account with licences I cant access)

Fair enough. I just thought we'd be arguing about copy protection or not. If you ask me, I could do without the dongle as well. Or a copy protection driver, or management software. I could also live without any copy protection. It's just that that isn't valid for everyone else out there as well. Some people need rules. Some people need traffic signs to drive properly as well. Those signs are not there for decent people like us.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:56 am

fde101 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:44 am The "normal" way of using iLok is the physical dongle which can be moved from the dead computer to a new working one; you can further improve license recoverability by subscribing to the zero downtime service they offer.

The you get 1 licence on 1 computer or constantly moving dongles around. I have 3 computers in my studio, it's so much either to active them on each computer and it saves a USB slot (important on my MS Surface). I really don't feel I should have to pay extra for extra dongles and a 'protection' service when none of my other software needs this.

fde101 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:44 am There is also the iLok Cloud option now for those licenses which allow it -

It's good to see ilok trying to catch up with whatever else has been doing successfully for many years, but of the 120 ilok licence I own, only one will let me register it to the cloud (Oxford), so it seems update is low but I personally hope all licences have this option in the near future.

fde101 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:44 am Pros and cons, like with most everything else.

I see no pro's at all over my other software copy protection such as Bitwig, Studio One, Live Studio or UHE stuff...I have used ilok for 15 years, it adds no benefit 'to me', just extra cost (2 x dongles as ilok1 was hacked I had to buy another dongle!) and inconvenience.

It seems everyone agrees that the ilok is not fit for purpose unless you use the dongle, I wonder if it is being sold that way to the developers who use the protection services? Soundtoys and others made a big deal about 'no dongle' being required when they switched to this option.

nitex · Post by **nitex** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:10 pm

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:39 am... and I am currently without licence for Wormhole and Adaptiverb because of this policy. I have been using ilok for 15 years and this has happened to me twice (both dead computers still show on my ilok account with licences I cant access)

This shouldn't be a thing at all, paid for software denied to be used. A customer will think twice before buying another product then, at least i will now for sure. Developers want to live, i'm fine with that and i like to support them, but i also want to be able to use my things i bought and not be locked out due to arbitrary restrictions imposed on me. Learned my lesson here is all i can really say. It's technically possible for them to solve the issue, so they should improve in the interest of their customer base.

starflakeprj · Post by **starflakeprj** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:41 pm

I don't really dislike iLok, but it hasn't been totally without problems. Twice, both after Windows upgrades, I have lost my licenses (ghost machines) and have been forced to contact all developers individually to reset them again. It hasn't happened agains since I went dongle though. And then we had the AIR Music Technology "incident" of course, where their installation files installed an older version of Pace, even though you had a newer one already installed (=BSOD).

My biggest problem, though, is that there are so many different copy protections. Owning around 1000 plugins and other softwares, most of them using some kind of copy protection, it's a living hell to contact the developers in case you run out of activations. They have been understanding, so far at least, but will they be, "forever"?

I would be O.K. if all developers used iLok, together with the dongle and ZDT

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:50 pm

starflakeprj wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:41 pm I don't really dislike iLok, but it hasn't been totally without problems. Twice, both after Windows upgrades, I have lost my licenses (ghost machines) and have been forced to contact all developers individually to reset them again.

I also have 2 permanent ghost machines perminently showing and it's a bit unnerving seeing them...like a constant reminder of what can happen any time!

HOTF · Post by **HOTF** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:40 pm

Annoyance but not a deal breaker for me !

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:55 pm

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:56 am It seems everyone agrees that the ilok is not fit for purpose unless you use the dongle, I wonder if it is being sold that way to the developers who use the protection services? Soundtoys and others made a big deal about 'no dongle' being required when they switched to this option.

Its interesting, I think the dongle *is* the main value-add for iLok. The Cloud option is no better than any other in the event of a machine "ghosting" where-in the license will be lost. That isnt any better than many other non-dongle DRMs. The dongle is the thing that keeps the licenses off the computer hardware, protecting the licenses from "ghosting" (computer dies and makes the licenses inaccessible).

If you can't deal with the dongle then iLok is not the way to go. If you are "forced" to use the dongle in order to use software you have, imho you are better off putting it on an iLok dongle to protect it.

Yes, getting an iLok dongle is effort and cost. But once you have it, that's it, done - and now you can enjoy having some of your licenses off the computer and not at risk in that regard.

The easist way, I think, to get over the anti-dongle sentiment is to get one and start using it. For me, getting the dongle was the way I ended up laying to rest my critisisms of it. Once I realized the dongle protected my licenses from ghosting, I was sold. I have had to deal with inaccessible non-dongle (non-iLok) license recovery from dev in the past and it was not fun.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:44 pm

I used to have everything on the dongle but I have 2 active PC's in use in my studio + a MS Surface...as I understand it you can only have 1 hardware dongle (despite having 3 licences for most of the items) so it basically turns all your software in to '1 licence only' and a lot of dongle swapping. It definitely isn't practical with the MS Surface. A reliable computer ID based system is better for me but I still own a lot of ilok software so... I am stuck with it.

By the way, if you search you will find lots of horror stories about the hardware dongle failing then you have the same issue- that why they sell you the support option- why would anyone need that if it was failsafe? I just read this one on VI Control...

''I just had an ilok die (says USB device descriptor request failed). It hadn't left my USB port since I bought it. They charge $50 + shipping to retrieve the licenses from the bad dongle, so that I can put them on a new one they will ship me for free (+ $30 in shipping)''

I still have no idea why ghosted machines cant be deleted...with Bitwig for example I can see the 3 registered computers permitted and remove them when needed even when I am not on the registered computer...what wrong with that idea?

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:52 pm

SLiC wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:44 pm I used to have everything on the dongle but I have 2 active PC's in use in my studio + a MS Surface...as I understand it you can only have 1 hardware dongle (despite having 3 licences for most of the items) so it basically turns all your software in to '1 licence only' and a lot of dongle swapping.

You can have multiple dongles. I do. I have 2. For licenses that offer 2 or more activations, I put one on each dongle. Perhaps this is the answer to your question.

Thoughts on Ilok?