DAWs not limited to (banks of) 8 knobs for remote control

[SebAV]

I use Live and suffer from having only banks of 8 control knobs for remote sound design. Even the simplest of synths (such as Juno 6 & friends) needs 24 controls and some are not knobs.
Do other DAWs only offer such limiting remote controls ? If not, how do they handle more than 8 controls (variety of control types : knobs, buttons, switches, …) and how do you « build » those « rich pages of controls » ?

[chk071]

Any DAW I tried so far... Studio One, Cubase, Cakewalk, Ableton... they all come with (sometimes multiple) ways of learning your controllers controls.

The way you assign the controls differ from DAW to DAW. You need to read the manuals to see how it is for a specific DAW.

For Cubase: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v12/e ... ote_c.html

For Studio One: https://s1manual.presonus.com/#Control_ ... 257C_____0

For Live: https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/midi- ... e-control/

[SebAV]

I’ll read for the other DAWs but your link for Live have made me realized that I didn’t specify that only 2 way communication is to be considered to me (use case is « sound design » as on a hardware knob laden synth or FX pedal, not « live performance »)

[chk071]

To be honest, you lost me a bit there.

Can you explain more precisely what exactly you are trying to do?

[SebAV]

I come from Reason and would like to know if there’s a DAW that offer remote control as great as it is with reason Remote tech. That is : having more than 8 parameters remote controlled simultaneously (a « page » with more than 8 controls), of any types (faders, buttons, switches), with 2 way communication (parameters on screen and on the controllers are always at the same value)

[TommyC81]

Reaper with ReaLearn plugin (free). It's an incredibly powerful and flexible combination.

Intro video from the developer: https://youtu.be/dUPyqYaIkYA

[pottering]

With Ableton Live 11 the number of macros (and "blue hand" auto assignments) rose to 16.

Live is not only knobs and is not only unidirectional, even the simple Korg NanoKontrol has "bidirectional" transport and mute/solo controls (plus sliders, no feedback or motors though), controllers like Launchpad, Push, Touchable app, etc. show how many possibilities there are.

Looking at Reason Remote I don't see any major difference with Live's Remote Scripts, seems the controller needs to be supported by Reason themselves and does whatever they programmed it to do, just like Live's scripts.

[beely]

I use Logic and my plugin controller has 32 knob/slider controls (and other stuff) and for me that's the optimum number that lets me meaningfully control plugins (including synths for osc, filter, envelopes and other controls) without have to many controls to manage/remember (same goes for additional pages of controls - or a second controller for more - I just don't need much more, and direct control is the most important.)

There's no manual learning of controls necessary, everything is automatically available in parameter order without doing anything (though you can - and I do) re-order the parameters to bring them up in a consistent layout regardless of the plugin used.

[SebAV]

Reaper with ReaLearn plugin (free). It's an incredibly powerful and flexible combination.

Intro video from the developer: https://youtu.be/dUPyqYaIkYA

I’ll take the time to watch it fully but it seems to be what I’m looking for. Thanks !

[SebAV]

With Ableton Live 11 the number of macros (and "blue hand" auto assignments) rose to 16.

Live is not only knobs and is not only unidirectional, even the simple Korg NanoKontrol has "bidirectional" transport and mute/solo controls (plus sliders, no feedback or motors though), controllers like Launchpad, Push, Touchable app, etc. show how many possibilities there are.

Looking at Reason Remote I don't see any major difference with Live's Remote Scripts, seems the controller needs to be supported by Reason themselves and does whatever they programmed it to do, just like Live's scripts.

Sorry, I was talking of « device controls » which only use knobs even for on/off switches. I’m still on Live 10 with an SL Mk3 and only 8 knobs can be used with devices. Whatever the power of the (undocumented) Live Remote Scripts, since Novation can use its 48 controls with Reason, it seems to be a limitation of Live to have only 8 used at once

[SebAV]

I use Logic and my plugin controller has 32 knob/slider controls (and other stuff) and for me that's the optimum number that lets me meaningfully control plugins (including synths for osc, filter, envelopes and other controls) without have to many controls to manage/remember (same goes for additional pages of controls - or a second controller for more - I just don't need much more, and direct control is the most important.)

There's no manual learning of controls necessary, everything is automatically available in parameter order without doing anything (though you can - and I do) re-order the parameters to bring them up in a consistent layout regardless of the plugin used.

To avoid to memorize what control is linked to what parameter, I use controllers with screens (Novation SL Mk3) but I’m thinking of using a Roland System8 and or System1, that’s why I’d like to know if there is a DAW where I can really used it (in Reason, sure, in Live, not so, well in fact, no !)

[chk071]

As I mentioned... I don't know any DAW where you can't use all your controllers controls (that's the whole point of a controller with many controls, right?). I really don't know what the issue is with Live (if any).

If I had to guess, then I would say that you simply don't explain the issue you have clearly enough, so there are misunderstandings. At least I don't understand what the actual issue is.

Also, when you talk about bidirectional MIDI communication. Do you mean something like a pickup mode? Or do you talk about something motorized faders on your MIDI controllers, which only the expensive ones have?

[SebAV]

As I mentioned... I don't know any DAW where you can't use all your controllers controls (that's the whole point of a controller with many controls, right?). I really don't know what the issue is with Live (if any).

If I had to guess, then I would say that you simply don't explain the issue you have clearly enough, so there are misunderstandings. At least I don't understand what the actual issue is.

Also, when you talk about bidirectional MIDI communication. Do you mean something like a pickup mode? Or do you talk about something motorized faders on your MIDI controllers, which only the expensive ones have?

The controller don’t have to be expensive : midi twister has 16 endless knobs with led rings. Or some not so expensive controllers have screens. Bi directional means when I change a parameter on the controller, it changes in the plugin, when I change in the plugin (using the GUI), it changes on the controller. In Live only « instant mappings » allows the later and is limited to 8 knobs (or faders or buttons but always 8 max) at once. Manual midi mapping or midi learn from inside the plugin allows as many as you can remote controls to be configured but only 1 way communication : controller to the plugin. Only with Push and only with Live native devices you have 2 way communication. That is the problem I have with Ableton Live. But if there’s a way to have more than 8 knobs at once with 2way communication when remote controlling VST plugins, I’d be very happy to know how and stop asking on kvr

[chk071]

Mh, Ok. Sorry, beats me. I don't know enough about Ableton to be able to tell.

[carrieres]

... But if there’s a way to have more than 8 knobs at once with 2way communication when remote controlling VST plugins, I’d be very happy to know how and stop asking on kvr

At least, asking on kvr allows me to enjoy earth rise
and the album too
Using max4live device is not working ?
or using Reason as a VST inside Live ?