Any Spring reverb VST like Pioneer SR303?

[mikehende]

They exist too - all the predecessors to the SR 303 were spring-based (101 with tubes even), but then Pioneer radically changed the technology (and thus the sound) while keeping a similar look.

A bucket-brigade device sounds nothing like a spring reverb at all.

That has always been the issue, trying to get a plugin to sound the same as this Pioneer.

If you were looking at spring-reverbs that is absolutely the to-be-expected outcome.

So wait, yes, trying to remember now, the 202 indeed had a sort of "spring" tone or sound to it and was/is advertised as a 'Spring" reverb. I guess this might be why it was assumed that the later models were spring reverbs too.
Thanks for clarifying on this!

[mikehende]

I am going to try out the Bucketverb [thanks] and compare it to my 303, get back to you.

Try also Valhalla Delay (BBDuck algo with a high amount of diffusion and moderate ducking)

I had tried Valhalla but at the time was testing it's delay sounds and not for reverb purposes but can give it a go again, thx.

[jens]

then let's have a look at anothe u-he: colour copy
https://u-he.com/products/colourcopy/

Yeah, I said exactly that already.

But iIrc Colour Copy doesn't have diffusion, which would mean it won't do...

[jens]

I am going to try out the Bucketverb [thanks] and compare it to my 303, get back to you.

Try also Valhalla Delay (BBDuck algo with a high amount of diffusion and moderate ducking)

I had tried Valhalla but at the time was testing it's delay sounds and not for reverb purposes but can give it a go again, thx.

I have listened to a demo of SR 303 (on Youtube) and think BBDuck should be able to pretty much nail it.
(delay ~50-160ms, I'd say - that should be about the range of the 303)

[whyterabbyt]

then let's have a look at anothe u-he: colour copy
https://u-he.com/products/colourcopy/

Yeah, I said exactly that already.

But iIrc Colour Copy doesn't have diffusion, which would mean it won't do...

There's no mention of diffusion in the SR-303 manual or service manual, and no indication of any such thing within the schematic or block diagrams.
Its a delay, and can be set to one mode as a single delay, or another that's repeated echo with some feedback. And there's a ducking-type circuit fed off the centre signal that attenuates the echo a bit. That's it.

[jens]

That's strange... what I heard sounds highly diffuse to me:






B.t.w.: I am not surprised that they don't mention it in either case - if it was fixed (as is often the case with reverberation devices) there'd be no point in that...

[mikehende]

Btw guys, since we are close to Black Friday sale here at which time I can ask the bud to purchase Bucketverb for his laptop, might there be any FREE similar alternative we can use until then please?

[mikehende]

I have listened to a demo of SR 303 (on Youtube) and think BBDuck should be able to pretty much nail it.
(delay ~50-160ms, I'd say - that should be about the range of the 303)

That is the best demo I have ever seen for the 303 so you guys know what I am after in a plugin, thanks!

I googled "bbduck" but not finding anything?

[jens]

It's one of the many algorithms that are included in Valhalla Delay. (I recommended settings for you to try there and this was part of that).

BBDuck: A brighter BBD model, with brightness that tracks the delay time (shorter delays are brighter, while longer delays are darker). Based on our analysis of the Ibanez AD-150 and Roland DC-10. This gets you that “rack mount” BBD sound that customers have been asking for!

https://valhalladsp.com/2019/11/26/valh ... d-ducking/

[mikehende]

ohh I see, will look into it, thanks.

[whyterabbyt]

Its not a stereo delay, so its mixing the inputs, putting them through a mono delay, and mixing the output of that (via its ducking) and the inputs into the outputs.

It might be 'diffused' to you, but a diffused result isnt necessarily the result of a specific diffusion process, and if there is no such process, replicating the results doesnt need that process either.

The process which would be 'diffusion' in a delay algorithm is generally based on a specific process/algorithm/block as used in reverberation algorithms, eg allpass filter networks. Such a thing might help get similar results from a delay, but so might a similar mixing topology, without needing diffusion.

https://valhalladsp.com/2019/06/13/valh ... n-section/
https://valhalladsp.com/2011/01/21/reve ... artifacts/

[jens]

might there be any FREE similar alternative we can use until then please?

From the top of my head I can't come up with much of anything right now... there's the free one from Full Bucket, but it doesn't have diffusion, which I actually still am convinced that you need to get that sound - but try it yourself:

https://www.fullbucket.de/music/fbdelay.html

[mikehende]

Looking at the plugin here:

https://valhalladsp.com/shop/delay/valhalladelay/

There any many knobs in it, would you be able to suggest which knobs I can adjust to give me the 303 sound please as the 303 has only 2 knobs [Reverb Time and Depth] and not seeing a TIME knob on Valhalla?

For clarity, I need only to get the exact sound at .14 mark in the video, nothing else. When he pulls the Reverb Time knob out, that I won't need.

[jens]

Its not a stereo delay, so its mixing the inputs, putting them through a mono delay, and mixing the output of that (via its ducking) and the inputs into the outputs.

It might be 'diffused' to you, but a diffused result isnt necessarily the result of a specific diffusion process, and if there is no such process, replicating the results doesnt need that process either.

The process which would be 'diffusion' in a delay algorithm is generally based on a specific process/algorithm/block as used in reverberation algorithms, eg allpass filter networks. Such a thing might help get similar results from a delay, but so might a similar mixing topology, without needing diffusion.

https://valhalladsp.com/2019/06/13/valh ... n-section/
https://valhalladsp.com/2011/01/21/reve ... artifacts/

Thanks for these links - tbh I absolutely do not know nearly enough about all of this - it's difficult for me to wrap my head around this component-wise (i.e. I am too thick to really comprehend what is going on in most electronic circuits) - all I can rely on here are my ears and my expecience as a user of such devices.

And whenever a delay plugin has a diffusion parameter (regardless of what method ever may be used to obtain this "diffusion"), I can dial in a diffuse sound that much rather resembles reverberation than discrete (repeating or not) echoes, and if there is no such parameter, then I can't.

(If it is a "reverb(eration)" device to begin with, that is of course another story - these often do not have a dedicated "diffusion" parameter.)

[jens]

Looking at the plugin here:

https://valhalladsp.com/shop/delay/valhalladelay/

There any many knobs in it, would you be able to suggest which knobs I can adjust to give me the 303 sound please as the 303 has only 2 knobs [Reverb Time and Depth] and not seeing a TIME knob on Valhalla?

I already gave you some hints above, but:

For clarity, I need only to get the exact sound at .14 mark in the video, nothing else. When he pulls the Reverb Time knob out, that I won't need.

That? That's more on the extreme end of it, seems to have some comb-filtering artifacts... let me have a look.