only audio and midi via usb in the future period
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 690 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
This is only way to make things work. Synth manufacturers, Apple, Microsoft, listen up. The standard should be Audio and Midi over a single usb cable. Plug and play everything works. No more foolin around. And I dont to see more installable server apps, bridge applications. settings menus. Thats so old. When you plug in a mouse to your computer it just works. This should be the standard for audio/midi syncing period.
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- KVRian
- 1045 posts since 3 Jul, 2006
I want my pro hardware equipment to have dedicated MIDI connectors. Audio and MIDI over USB as well.
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- KVRAF
- 6426 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
Agreed, usb is crap from a point of reliability. Very few glitches in surroundings is enough to make usb freeze. Midi interfaces to din midi is the same. I would never go running audio over usb too.
I am always careful to start master keyboard before starting pc, or I have to restart midi interfaces again unplugging and reinserting again.
Then another thing that is not obvious for class compliant audio over usb is that drivers in windows for one is crap latency over 20-40 ms or something like that.
So every manfacturer would need to enclose WDM drivers in case of windows or similar. Maybe Mac is better on this, they were always more into multimedia than windows pc.
We saw many people here on forum buying usb microphones and wonder why there is an unacceptable delay into daw for recording. It goes over DirectMusic or some other drivers in windows which is not made for low latency recording.
Usb is user friendly at many things but audio for recording is not one of them, unless manufacturer expect to be alone with ASIO device and provide ASIO drivers. But it keep freezing up much to often to be any useful. I only use internal cards from RME since. No glitches what so ever.
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- KVRAF
- 7873 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Do they make USB patchbays yet? If not, then how am I going to connect all my synths up? Currently I have 6 synths on the stands, a 2600 over on the far wall and 3 desktop synths. That's 10, with others I don't currently use that I might want to hook up at some point and every now and then (though rarely) I have some outboard FX that I use and dick around with over midi too. And I'm certainly not done buying synths yet - at least another 5 on my list, probably more once Behringer start actually releasing all the things they've been tempting me with.
Now I know such things as USB hubs exist, so maybe I could hook up 15-20 units via some kind of mega USB hub, but from what I've heard some gear can be very dodgy over hubs. TBH midi ports have been rock solid for 40+ years so why f**k around with it now.
Actually I haven't heard quite as silly an idea as making all gear USB for a while. I'll stick with good old midi and jacks thanks. Actually I have 2 recent synths that have USB capability that I've used to upgrade their OS via USB. 'Twas a pain in the proverbials TBH. Was pleased when I could pull out the USB and plug it back in properly.
Now I know such things as USB hubs exist, so maybe I could hook up 15-20 units via some kind of mega USB hub, but from what I've heard some gear can be very dodgy over hubs. TBH midi ports have been rock solid for 40+ years so why f**k around with it now.
Actually I haven't heard quite as silly an idea as making all gear USB for a while. I'll stick with good old midi and jacks thanks. Actually I have 2 recent synths that have USB capability that I've used to upgrade their OS via USB. 'Twas a pain in the proverbials TBH. Was pleased when I could pull out the USB and plug it back in properly.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105855 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
Make it so!
...
uh, period?
Audio over USB (not talking about a built-in audio interface) is RARE. The only hardware company (that I know of) that actively supports it is Elektron.
Last edited by T-CM11 on Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7873 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Good point. With my previous tablet (on a micro USB) I think I must have bought 3 maybe 4 chargers that went kaput, but bought even more cables than that - seemed to be almost every 6 months the charging went dodgy and turned out to be cables not connecting properly in the micro USB port. Now That's Not What I Call Reliable...cue for an album name.
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- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
While USB-C is a bit better, I'm not expecting new reliable connection types to appear in the future.kritikon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:16 pm Good point. With my previous tablet (on a micro USB) I think I must have bought 3 maybe 4 chargers that went kaput, but bought even more cables than that - seemed to be almost every 6 months the charging went dodgy and turned out to be cables not connecting properly in the micro USB port. Now That's Not What I Call Reliable...cue for an album name.
Enjoy the old ones while you can. 
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- KVRAF
- 6426 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
If we talk midi over usb - is also a can of worms.
USB is not made to be connected with a complete nest of cables, unless you beg for ground loop issues. It is not safe in that regard, especially if connecting audio unbalanced from same device, it's begging for trouble. You would insert ground for midi as well as audio if not perfectly balanced audio on synths and audio interface.
Different separate devices powered over usb too, is rather safe though, in my experience.
DIN MIDI, done as specified, is to be complete different circuit on client and computer side through a optical coupler. So you at least are not creating another loop for ground that way. Incredibly well thought out 40 years ago, and initiated by Dave Smith having manufacturer ID 1 for Sequential circuits, which is cool. R.I.P dear Dave.
I have 14 midi ports, and some din midi cables 10m long, no problems at all. Most of them 6m. You need special repeaters for usb to fix as long stuff for usb. Saw some mentioned at some forum. But still, not safe from ground loop issues as I understand it.
With balanced audio, and also ground lift, you would be rather safe for that part to normal audio interfaces if also balanced of course.
I usb a lot for cameras to transfer video and pics to computer. Usually mini usb which are all flimsy in my experience. A lot of glitches and cables may not be moved one bit or it is suddenly lost contact. The big standard usb work pretty well in that regard.
USB is not made to be connected with a complete nest of cables, unless you beg for ground loop issues. It is not safe in that regard, especially if connecting audio unbalanced from same device, it's begging for trouble. You would insert ground for midi as well as audio if not perfectly balanced audio on synths and audio interface.
Different separate devices powered over usb too, is rather safe though, in my experience.
DIN MIDI, done as specified, is to be complete different circuit on client and computer side through a optical coupler. So you at least are not creating another loop for ground that way. Incredibly well thought out 40 years ago, and initiated by Dave Smith having manufacturer ID 1 for Sequential circuits, which is cool. R.I.P dear Dave.
I have 14 midi ports, and some din midi cables 10m long, no problems at all. Most of them 6m. You need special repeaters for usb to fix as long stuff for usb. Saw some mentioned at some forum. But still, not safe from ground loop issues as I understand it.
With balanced audio, and also ground lift, you would be rather safe for that part to normal audio interfaces if also balanced of course.
I usb a lot for cameras to transfer video and pics to computer. Usually mini usb which are all flimsy in my experience. A lot of glitches and cables may not be moved one bit or it is suddenly lost contact. The big standard usb work pretty well in that regard.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105855 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
One day, in the not-so-distant future, you'll tell the kids about the existence of cables, any cables.
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- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
I've heard about those, is that an American thing?
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- Beware the Quoth
- 33173 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Yeah, good call. Instead of being able to hook up any MIDI controller to any MIDI synth, lets always have to have a computer in the middle for no good reason.
Because there isnt a single controller or synth out there that's actually a USB host.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 1568 posts since 1 Aug, 2006 from Italy
Ground issues, as already written by lfm, are one of the reasons why I prefer using the old fashioned din midi instead of usb.
Instead of USB, I’d rather have something over ethernet like Dante for audio and then maybe use the same network connection for midi over ethernet too… maybe it’s not plug and play as usb, but it’s much more scalable and manageable (and you can also avoid ground loops).
Anyway, the classic audio and din midi connections just work… and I can choose to use whatever converter I want (I have a good soundcard, so I prefer using those converters instead)…
Instead of USB, I’d rather have something over ethernet like Dante for audio and then maybe use the same network connection for midi over ethernet too… maybe it’s not plug and play as usb, but it’s much more scalable and manageable (and you can also avoid ground loops).
Anyway, the classic audio and din midi connections just work… and I can choose to use whatever converter I want (I have a good soundcard, so I prefer using those converters instead)…
