Hey IK, When You Finally Do MODO Guitar...

[benjamind]

I’ve said far too many times why MODO guitar can only ever be significantly limited in a way that MODO bass and MODO drums are not, but y’all carry on waiting for something that cannot happen. It’ll probably arrive one day, but it will be fundamentally limited in what it can do (just like all current guitar VIs, only modelled and limited).

It can and has been done. Have you ever used Ample Sound?
The Ample Guitars are only limited by their canned sound. Users have full control over exactly how and where they are played.

My point exactly.

I don't believe any guitar or bass VI could ever replace a real bassist or guitarist. But it can get close. Modelled might do 95%.

Sampled guitars have already proven that it can get 90% of the way there. And there samples so they sound so canned and I don't like canned guitars in general or anything that is highly expressive. Canned guitar sucks in specific ways...let's face it. Not to say that they sound bad in any way but they are just not my cup of tea. I use them for basic strums and simple stuff. I would never attempt to do fast slides on canned guitars.

That's why we are all waiting on MODO...LOL.

I think this guy doesn't want MODO to come out...I don't know why that is, but I DO want it to come out but I am not going to wait...so might have to work on different music instead. One that doesn't involve fast guitar playing

[noiseboyuk]

It can and has been done. Have you ever used Ample Sound?
The Ample Guitars are only limited by their canned sound. Users have full control over exactly how and where they are played.

I'm sure it's lovely. But can it play this very simple 2 chord progression?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnlldpzq9hjss ... e.mp3?dl=0

The answer will be no. Because no keyboard can play a finger-shape played on some strings which then harmonically cross over open strings.

This is an open challenge I've put across several threads. Not a single person has attempted to refute it, because the answer is always no. It's physically impossible, and it's the easiest thing in the world to play on the guitar.

Once again - guitar VIs can be terrific at emulating a particular kind of playing. No argument there. But they cannot produce some of the most basic, effortless things on a guitar and never will. This doesn't apply to bass guitar, drums, violin, cello, accordion, you name it.

EDIT - should have been clear - multiple passes to clumsily re-create the effect don't count.

[Uncle E]

Yamaha keyboards have been nailing flamenco guitar for over decade. No physical modeling, just clever use of multi-samples (articulations at high velocities and at the ends of the key range) and arpeggiators. Sometimes you’ll hear a string squeak or note slide where it doesn’t make sense but it still adds to the realism.

[benjamind]

I'm sure it's lovely. But can it play this very simple 2 chord progression?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnlldpzq9hjss ... e.mp3?dl=0

The answer will be no. Because no keyboard can play a finger-shape played on some strings which then harmonically cross over open strings.

This is an open challenge I've put across several threads. Not a single person has attempted to refute it, because the answer is always no. It's physically impossible, and it's the easiest thing in the world to play on the guitar.

Once again - guitar VIs can be terrific at emulating a particular kind of playing. No argument there. But they cannot produce some of the most basic, effortless things on a guitar and never will. This doesn't apply to bass guitar, drums, violin, cello, accordion, you name it.

EDIT - should have been clear - multiple passes to clumsily re-create the effect don't count.

I concur that does sound like it would be very difficult to accomplish on a keyboard. Is it possible to lock an open string on an emulation? A keyswitch to lock an open string could be possible.

Still doesn't mean they can't try to pull it off. But I agree that simple 2 chord part would be impossible without locking the string in the emulation whilst the chords are sliding.

[jamcat]

Yes Ample Sound could play that. You just specify the fret you want to barre at and trigger a slide with keyswitches.

[noiseboyuk]

Yes Ample Sound could play that. You just specify the fret you want to barre at and trigger a slide with keyswitches.

I'd genuinely love to hear what it could or couldn't do. The chords around these are totally different, so it would be extremely difficult to program all the appropriate on/offs for open strings. Still, if that can be done - however messy - I'd take my hat off to it (if that's not too weird a thing).

But even then, perhaps the main thing is you would never think to play anything so convoluted in the first place. Writing a song on a keyboard with virtual guitar is a totally different experience to playing on a guitar. On the guitar it is so simple (and conversely there are things simple to play on a keyboard that are hard or impossible on a guitar).

[jamcat]

Well, the way I use guitar VSTs is to make mock-ups of my guitar parts while writing, so I don’t lose them forever when I inevitably forget how I played them. Fretboard position, slides, and open strings are very important to me. Style is everything on guitar. I’ve been able to sequence everything note for note (and fret for fret) with Ample Guitar, no problem.

I just don’t like the canned sound or the large footprint.

[benjamind]

I just don’t like the canned sound or the large footprint.

Well...until MODO Guitar comes along, we are stuck with canned, expensive and RAM/disk filling sample libraries.

Nothing much we can do until it arrives. Um, that's IF it arrives. Not so sure about now. I doubt it will ever come. Now, I could be wrong and I'd hate to be right, but I'll just assume it's coming until it's like 2026...then I might forget about it because it'll be pretty obvious by that time. Another 4 years of waiting. Sure. The further into that 4 years the less hopeful I will be and after that 4 years has transpired that's f**king it. That's the time to pack this thing away because it probably ain't gonna happen.

[Uncle E]

[donkey tugger]

Yes Ample Sound could play that. You just specify the fret you want to barre at and trigger a slide with keyswitches.

I'd genuinely love to hear what it could or couldn't do. The chords around these are totally different, so it would be extremely difficult to program all the appropriate on/offs for open strings. Still, if that can be done - however messy - I'd take my hat off to it (if that's not too weird a thing).

But even then, perhaps the main thing is you would never think to play anything so convoluted in the first place. Writing a song on a keyboard with virtual guitar is a totally different experience to playing on a guitar. On the guitar it is so simple (and conversely there are things simple to play on a keyboard that are hard or impossible on a guitar).

When there's been threads like this before people have said they could reproduce realistic guitar parts, but either they weren't forthcoming, or sounded utterly shite..

I seem to recall challenging someone to copy a simple acoustic bit I'd knocked up in about a minute. It didn't go well..

[Uncle E]

The acoustic parts in that new Musiclab video sound great.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The acoustic parts in that new Musiclab video sound great.

Didn't get a chance to listen yet, but I'd be curious as to how long they took to compose. One of the nicer things about MODO Bass is how little effort is required to get great sounding results (for the most part, some things it still doesn't do well). Whereas who can be assed to spend hours writing a somewhat realistic guitar part when a few weeks with the real thing will get you better results. I know that point has been a made a thousand times here, but I think it's important. Guitar is hard to write for versus just playing (absent some physical impairment that makes it impossible).

[benjamind]

They are sample based, but they do sound nice. I'll wait for MODO.

Either a couple of years or a couple hundred years? Who knows?

I won't settle for samples, since I already have some libraries.

[benjamind]

I see...they didn't move the posts over here they simply deleted them. Nice.

Next time I won't bother. Not even with this thread. I'm done waiting. I give up waiting because it's just f**king bullshit. You wait for years only to be bitterly disappointed.

No I won't wait another 4 years. The waiting stops now because I give up.

[Uncle E]

Try Musiclab. He’s been making the RealGuitar series for over 8 years, updating often. V6 was just released.