Hey IK, When You Finally Do MODO Guitar...

[benjamind]

I know everyone is saying it can't be done.

Well if that's the case we wouldn't see Orange Tree Samples, we wouldn't see RealStrat/RealGuitar, we wouldn't see Shreddage. We wouldn't see Amplesound.

LOL and those are based on samples. Physical modeling would actually be EASIER to do, since you don't need to worry about where the samples are or what part of the sample you need to use as the sound source.

[donkey tugger]

I know everyone is saying it can't be done.

Well if that's the case we wouldn't see Orange Tree Samples, we wouldn't see RealStrat/RealGuitar, we wouldn't see Shreddage. We wouldn't see Amplesound.

LOL and those are based on samples. Physical modeling would actually be EASIER to do, since you don't need to worry about where the samples are or what part of the sample you need to use as the sound source.

I think you misunderstand. People are saying it can't be done (so far..) convincingly. As per my previous post, in my view the more nuanced and subtle, or exposed, the part is the more artificial it generally will sound.

[Uncle E]

Already done convincingly. The Musiclab V6 sounds real and I’ve heard flamenco guitar on a Yamaha that made me regret the years I spent learning to play flamenco. Maybe you won’t replace Segovia but you can definitely replace all 5 guitarists in The Eagles.

[donkey tugger]

Already done convincingly. The Musiclab V6 sounds real and I’ve heard flamenco guitar on a Yamaha that made me regret the years I spent learning to play flamenco. Maybe you won’t replace Segovia but you can definitely replace all 5 guitarists in The Eagles.

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this...

[ChristopherWD]

This is a bit of a ramble, but from my experience the trick to getting closer to a convincing-ish guitar sound is implementing all the tricks that I've learned from actually playing guitar, which usually results in a ton of extra sequencing and creation of so many alternate sounds (like pick scratch, harmonics, string/finger noise and countless ways of muting to name a few). I think many modelling programs already do a pretty decent "pure" guitar tone, but it's really only a small part of the sound. It's a very noisy but expressive instrument!

[Uncle E]

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this...

Sorry, I realize I probably sounded contrarian. Wasn’t trying to be. If you could see the players I’ve seen, I think you’d at least see where I’m coming from, even if you don’t completely agree. One of them was John Mellencamp’s keyboardist, an amazing player. He made his Motif sound as good as any country or rock guitarist.

[Uncle E]

This is a bit of a ramble, but from my experience the trick to getting closer to a convincing-ish guitar sound is implementing all the tricks that I've learned from actually playing guitar, which usually results in a ton of extra sequencing and creation of so many alternate sounds (like pick scratch, harmonics, string/finger noise and countless ways of muting to name a few). I think many modelling programs already do a pretty decent "pure" guitar tone, but it's really only a small part of the sound. It's a very noisy but expressive instrument!

Yamaha’s add those sounds in based on velocity, plus mute sounds at the bottom range of the keyboard.

[pdxindy]

I know everyone is saying it can't be done.

Well if that's the case we wouldn't see Orange Tree Samples, we wouldn't see RealStrat/RealGuitar, we wouldn't see Shreddage. We wouldn't see Amplesound.

LOL and those are based on samples. Physical modeling would actually be EASIER to do, since you don't need to worry about where the samples are or what part of the sample you need to use as the sound source.

I think you misunderstand. People are saying it can't be done (so far..) convincingly. As per my previous post, in my view the more nuanced and subtle, or exposed, the part is the more artificial it generally will sound.

Exactly... of course it can be done to model a particular snapshot... a moment in time. It is the incredible range of sounds and techniques of live playing that cannot be matched.

And even if someone spends weeks painstakingly replicating every nuance of a particular performance, it will never have the interactive beauty of live musicians playing together when they hit a groove. The guitar is an incredible instrument for rhythm and groove.

[MJACau]

And even if someone spends weeks painstakingly replicating every nuance of a particular performance, it will never have the interactive beauty of live musicians playing together when they hit a groove. The guitar is an incredible instrument for rhythm and groove.

Just a musician in the moment hitting the groove...

[donkey tugger]

And even if someone spends weeks painstakingly replicating every nuance of a particular performance, it will never have the interactive beauty of live musicians playing together when they hit a groove. The guitar is an incredible instrument for rhythm and groove.

Just a musician in the moment hitting the groove...

Sorry, but sounds like someone playing a keyboard.

[vurt]

And even if someone spends weeks painstakingly replicating every nuance of a particular performance, it will never have the interactive beauty of live musicians playing together when they hit a groove. The guitar is an incredible instrument for rhythm and groove.

Just a musician in the moment hitting the groove...

Sorry, but sounds like someone playing a keyboard.

it's the guy from that advert...

[noiseboyuk]

Sorry, but sounds like someone playing a keyboard.

Parts aren't bad at all, but yeah definitely plenty of keyboardisms in there.

The point I've consistently made is not that guitar VIs can't ever sound good. The right sort of part can sound very good indeed with a good VI programmed well. The point is that there is a lot of guitar playing that is almost effortless on a guitar but impossible - or at VERY BEST exceptionally difficult - on a keyboard.

All keyboard players here who can't play guitar but think they can sound just like it - invite yourself round an actual guitarist's house some time. Get them to play figures up and down the fretboard keeping some open strings. Then - hopefully - you'll know what we're are on about.

For the Xth time of asking, anyone is very free on a VI (without multiple passes) to attempt to recreate these 2 chords that took me 4 seconds to play on a real guitar. So far nobody appears to have attempted it, oddly enough.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnlldpzq9hjss ... e.mp3?dl=0

[donkey tugger]

Sorry, but sounds like someone playing a keyboard.

Parts aren't bad at all, but yeah definitely plenty of keyboardisms in there.

The point I've consistently made is not that guitar VIs can't ever sound good. The right sort of part can sound very good indeed with a good VI programmed well. The point is that there is a lot of guitar playing that is almost effortless on a guitar but impossible - or at VERY BEST exceptionally difficult - on a keyboard.

All keyboard players here who can't play guitar but think they can sound just like it - invite yourself round an actual guitarist's house some time. Get them to play figures up and down the fretboard keeping some open strings. Then - hopefully - you'll know what we're are on about.

For the Xth time of asking, anyone is very free on a VI (without multiple passes) to attempt to recreate these 2 chords that took me 4 seconds to play on a real guitar. So far nobody appears to have attempted it, oddly enough.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnlldpzq9hjss ... e.mp3?dl=0

For me it's always the strumming, or strumming/picking hybrids that are the utter fails. See it was avoided in that video clip.

[noiseboyuk]

For me it's always the strumming, or strumming/picking hybrids that are the utter fails. See it was avoided in that video clip.

Actually I think straight strumming can be pretty good these days. This was done in seconds using NI Strummed Acoustic 2:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5qo6zqqngbqu ... 2.mp3?dl=0

The nki chose appropriate string allocations and the transitions and strums themselves were pretty good. Exposed over a whole song without any more finesse it would feel mechanical, but that would work just fine in plenty of applications.

Varying between picking and strumming is harder. It's figures around open strings that is the biggest challenge, 88 note keyboards can't really do that.

[donkey tugger]

For me it's always the strumming, or strumming/picking hybrids that are the utter fails. See it was avoided in that video clip.

Actually I think straight strumming can be pretty good these days. This was done in seconds using NI Strummed Acoustic 2:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x5qo6zqqngbqu ... 2.mp3?dl=0

The nki chose appropriate string allocations and the transitions and strums themselves were pretty good. Exposed over a whole song without any more finesse it would feel mechanical, but that would work just fine in plenty of applications.

Varying between picking and strumming is harder. It's figures around open strings that is the biggest challenge, 88 note keyboards can't really do that.

You'd get away with that in the background, mixed down for rhythmic accompaniment, but nothing further. For me anyway.