Logic "Tube EQ" vs any other pultec emulation

[Ploki]

Yes, a DC filter...
Are there comparisons to a real hardware Pultec?
You can say: the emulations are quite different, both in terms of THD and frequency response. But which emulation is the closest hardware emulation?

i guess we could try pulling it through the pultec on Mix Analog?
https://mixanalog.com/products/pultecla2a

unfortunately it doesn't look like the pultec is available separately

[Rockatansky]

Let's think about how a Pultec works. It's a passive design, so its filters don't really boost. Its filters attenuate the signal at a fixed amount, even if no 'boost' or cut is happening. When a 'boost' is turned up, the fixed attenuation of the related filter is reduced. In other words, after the entire signal is made quieter first, turning up a 'boost' knob doesn't make that frequency range louder, but actually only makes that specific range of the signal be 'less quiet', i.e. at best it goes back to input level.
The fact that the entire signal is attenuated right away, means that what comes out of the device is significantly lower in volume than what went in, even without any filtering happening. To make up for the signal level that was lost, an active/powered amplifier follows the filtering stage. Pultecs usually come in two flavors: solid state or, more widely known, tube amplifier. So in conclusion, a Pultec style EQ will lower the signal volume first, and to keep the incoming signal at its original level, without even filtering, later on brings it up again with (most commonly) a tube amplifier. This is where the 'bypass saturation' thing comes from, and why any Pultec emulation worth looking at adds some form of tube-style saturation.
It also means that any noise floor added by the input stage or the filtering circuit will be amplified in the output stage. The Noiseash Ruletec for example has the 'Analog' switch to add noise, but turning the 'Gain' knob (which should be an output amplifier in a Pultec model) does not affect the noise floor in any way. IMO automatically disqualifies the Ruletec from any best-of-Pultec lists, because just how accurate can an 'extremely accurate model' [sic] be, if they didn't even get this basic and simple characteristic right.
When judging the model of a tube-based Pultec, also consider that tube amplifiers were used due to their sonic supremacy 'back in the day'. Tube amplifiers weren't used because they made everything grungey and grimey, but because they were the cleanest amplification circuits available at the time, until the solid-state wave washed across the audio industry. Tube amplifiers don't pollute the signal's spectrum with countless spiking overtones, but the main harmonics they add will be the 2nd and 3rd order, as well as maybe some 4th order, at least for the low voltages in a line-level EQ circuit. So a Pultec-inspired plugin that adds intense harmonics, or has harmonics beyond the 4th, will usually be just that - inspired. But not very accurate or authentic.

[Ploki]

good post.
and ruletec adds.. A LOT. of harmonics.
And no 2nd order harmonics typically associated with vacuum tubes.

I have no clue why RuleTec is deemed best pultec over the web, it's basic characteristics don't behave like a tube device would. (only odd order harmonics)

[Rockatansky]

I have no clue why RuleTec is deemed best pultec over the web

3D GUI, bold claims on the website that nobody cares to challenge, and probably most importantly an artificially inflated MRSP with constantly discounted sale pricing. It's more a Waves simulation than it is a Pultec emulation.

[Obsolete462444]

I have no clue why RuleTec is deemed best pultec over the web

3D GUI, bold claims on the website that nobody cares to challenge, and probably most importantly an artificially inflated MRSP with constantly discounted sale pricing. It's more a Waves simulation than it is a Pultec emulation.

Hence it would be worthwhile to analyse the free Pultec emulation by Ignite Amps, which seems to be much more authentic than many overly hyped commercial / payware offerings. Never understood the Ruletec hype myself, I was quite disappointed with Noiseash after trying their Speakerphone copy.

[subterfuge]

3D GUI, bold claims on the website that nobody cares to challenge...

GUI is the worst part of that otherwise fine version. Advertizing and bold claims, who would've ever thought they could go together? About not challenging those claims, what are you doing here then? Thanks for doing that anyway.

Anybody can test what they favor by going to Gearslutz and taking the blind test they have been running there for over a year now. There's a real hw Pultec amongst the samples. Specs are not published, they are PM'd to whoever wants to find out what the samples were. Could be an ear opener for some people.

Of course personal testing of as many as possible is the best way. And there's always Apogee EQP-1A for the people who want the officially licensed and endorsed by Pultec version. It's certainly good too. And pricey, but they have rent-to-own. iLok.

[Ploki]

3D GUI, bold claims on the website that nobody cares to challenge...

GUI is the worst part of that otherwise fine version. Advertizing and bold claims, who would've ever thought they could go together? About not challenging those claims, what are you doing here then? Thanks for doing that anyway.

Anybody can test what they favor by going to Gearslutz and taking the blind test they have been running there for over a year now. There's a real hw Pultec amongst the samples. Specs are not published, they are PM'd to whoever wants to find out what the samples were. Could be an ear opener for some people.

Of course personal testing of as many as possible is the best way. And there's always Apogee EQP-1A for the people who want the officially licensed and endorsed by Pultec version. It's certainly good too. And pricey, but they have rent-to-own. iLok.

tbh i prefer a more scientific approach to blind-tests. Human perception is flawed.
you could argue that if you can't hear it, it doesn't matter.
most likely you would be right. but if i'm buying "the most authentic pultec emulation ever" i want it anyway

[Rockatansky]

GUI is the worst part of that otherwise fine version.

Depends on 'scientific' UX rules and personal preference. I don't find it THAT bad, there are definitely worse GUIs around.

Advertizing and bold claims, who would've ever thought they could go together?

There's nothing wrong with bold claims as long as they are justified. But if the product doesn't live up to them, then they're either lies with intent to deceive, or naivety/careless uninformedness of the party making those bold claims. Personally, I wouldn't want to purchase a product from someone who wouldn't be ashamed of using either (or both) of those practices to represent themselves in public.

About not challenging those claims, what are you doing here then?

Well, I wouldn't call myself the average consumer. More like a crazy cat lady of sorts. I can waste weekends sending sine waves, noise bursts and pulse sequences through my racks of analog gear or lists of plugins to try and figure them out, without even once reflecting whether or not my time might be better spent actually making some music. I am not ashamed of reading anything from manuals to scientific articles, nor do I fear going on evening-filling Google sprees, in a quest to figure out the things I read in those materials but maybe didn't understand. Or in short, you won't find me asking 'what is the best XYZ for ABC' in a forum, because I'll be busy figuring that out on my own.
I understand that not everyone out there is wired like that, sadly. If everyone knew how to see through empty marketing and spot a shit product, just imagine how much money people would save, and how much harder plugin developers would have to work to make something people actually cared to use. Educated consumers are the force that keeps a market's product quality high. But if nobody knows what they're doing, or how to spot if the thing they're using is any good, developers can get away with just about anything. I swear I saw someone saying nice things about Analog Obsession plugins somewhere, and there must be somone who buys those King Oz contraptions.

[subterfuge]

Ahah, I quoted wrong poster, sorry about that both to you and Ploki.

When I mentioned GUI being the worst part of Rule Tec, I meant that without any reference to other VSTs. It's usable and there surely are worse, but a design where you can't clearly line up controls with specific values is not the best to me.

I'm no stranger to research, reading manuals ( I have tons of them) and doing endless comparisons/tests myself either. I might test any specific plugin type anywhere from weeks to over a year before deciding what I'll get. I don't make decisions on a whim, going by hype or price...except that too pricey is always too pricey, gotta eat too. I rarely get introduction prices or flash sales, because I was not interested on those items at that moment or didn't have enough time to get into them properly.

But there is plenty of gear for which I don't have real world reference nor user experience myself, only what other people have provided on that given thing. So you learn to trust some people on matters too. I don't believe virtual world has any totally authentic emulations of hardware anyway, more like which ones are closest to it at this moment. So in those cases I can allow myself to lean towards the ones which suit me the best regardless.

As for the advertizing, I pay as little attention to it as possible. That's because I don't want the bad marketing (like it is for a lots of stuff) affect my decision about the product itself. If there's not just hyped descriptions, but clear misinformation and intent to fool customers with something, that's of course worse. How to know that and differentiate it from the regular marketing talk might be something else though.

[4damind]

I have no clue why RuleTec is deemed best pultec over the web, it's basic characteristics don't behave like a tube device would. (only odd order harmonics)

Maybe because of some listening tests eg. on Gearslutz.
The topic creator wrote "FWIW Rule Tech was not only the most picked algo (by far), it was the most picked out of all of them"

[fceramic]

This thread doesn't really mention the Logic Pultec. It is by far my favourite as it uses convolution like the Acqua plugs. Adds that nice 3D effect and sizzling highs. The API is also amazing!

[Bodhisan]

This thread doesn't really mention the Logic Pultec. It is by far my favourite as it uses convolution like the Acqua plugs. Adds that nice 3D effect and sizzling highs. The API is also amazing!

Recently tried the Black Rooster VEQ 1 and 5 on vocals and was really happy with the color and slight compression that it added. Then, on a whim, I noticed that (as the thread began with) one of the newer e.q.s added to Logic a few years ago(?) was an emulation - it actually combines both into one. I a/b'd that with the BR pair, and I was sort of shocked at how it produced a smooth silky sheen that made me think of the Joe Meek compressor/e.q. hardware that I used to have. I now use the Logic tube e.q. on vocals, but I also have BR's Edelweiss on the tail-end of the chain, using it for some additional e.q. adjustments and compression, which adds ever-so-beautifully to the smoothest vocals I've ever had come out of my gear.

[Glyster]

Newbie on mixing here. But I did read up and watched a few comparisons on Rule Tec and various other Pultec EQs. I also was impressed by a lot of positive reviews on Rule Tec. So I downloaded the demo and test it. Here are some references on the other Pultec like plugins:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... vintage-eq

You can see both Waves and UAD version generate even and odd harmonics. While Tube Tec generates odd harmonics. My understanding is Tube Tec is not exactly a Pultec clone. In Softube's manual they specifically mentioned this behavior, I'd be surprised if they mess this up as this is an emulation blessed by official Tube Tec.

I did further audio tests and noticed Rule Tec seems to have a muddiness in the low end that's not present in the Waves Puigtec and Tube Tec.

[Ou_Tis]

Newbie on mixing here. But I did read up and watched a few comparisons on Rule Tec and various other Pultec EQs. I also was impressed by a lot of positive reviews on Rule Tec. So I downloaded the demo and test it. Here are some references on the other Pultec like plugins:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... vintage-eq

You can see both Waves and UAD version generate even and odd harmonics. While Tube Tec generates odd harmonics. My understanding is Tube Tec is not exactly a Pultec clone. In Softube's manual they specifically mentioned this behavior, I'd be surprised if they mess this up as this is an emulation blessed by official Tube Tec.

I did further audio tests and noticed Rule Tec seems to have a muddiness in the low end that's not present in the Waves Puigtec and Tube Tec.

The Rule Tec is generally most praised for its low end. One person's "muddiness" may be another's "fatness and warmth"....

I especially like the low end on the Rule Tec Heritage Pro, but YMMV.

[The Noodlist]

A free emulation Warmy EP1A by Kiive Audio
https://www.kiiveaudio.com/warmy-ep1a-eq
https://plugins4free.com/plugin/3466/