I completely suck at producing

[Erisian]

How complicated everything is today. I just mix it until I like what I hear.

[machine_spirit]

The first thing I ever tried was a guitar and it was like wtf how does anyone ever learn to play this bizarre thing. Then I tried keyboards and it was totally different, took right to it.

Similar experience here. I think it might be the default one. On a guitar you can barely see what you're doing and at the same time you're asked to make these mystical finger configurations as if you're Gandalf or something. On the other hand, guitars sound so good and rich with comparatively little effort.

[melomood]

It's all good exercise for the brain & hands. I was so depressed 12 years ago when I got my diagnoses and told neuropathy will only progress, sure I was going to be unable to play anything eventually, but I think it has helped maintain function

[mixyguy2]

Similar experience here. I think it might be the default one. On a guitar you can barely see what you're doing and at the same time you're asked to make these mystical finger configurations as if you're Gandalf or something. On the other hand, guitars sound so good and rich with comparatively little effort.

Oh yeah what I'd give to play the guitar, it's an amazing instrument and I am totally amazed by anyone who can play even competently, never mind above that. Your description pretty much was what I was thinking, it's like OK clearly Satan invented this because it's so damned hard but the appeal of being able to do it is so strong lol

[crispr]

Many people in the electronic music scene nowadays don’t really know how to play an instrument. No wonder there’s so much talk about blank slate angsts and empty DAWs being scary. If I want to start a new track, I just play my synths/piano/guitar until I like what I hear and then press record.

Then it takes about three months to arrange and polish everything but the idea is there since day one.

Bottom line is: learn an instrument. You wanna be a MUSICIAN after all, right?;)

[melomood]

That was true outside of electronic music. It just happened mostly in suburban garages in the past.

[glasspipe]

Listen to a lot of music that you like and try to piece apart all the elements and try to imitate it. Also try making music with loops and samples, it will help you get some sense of arrangement. Then once you're comfortable with that, take it to the next level.

[crispr]

That was true outside of electronic music. It just happened mostly in suburban garages in the past.

Yeah, but there guys were playing their instruments (only poorly). What I had in mind was folks trying to put something together by arranging samples and loops with a mouse. While there’s nothing wrong with this approach, I imagine it can lead to severe writers block and frustration.

[melomood]

I don't see why electronic musicians get singled out. If some kid is in his bedroom arranging loops from some 'sound like Old Country Road' pack of drum,bass & guitar loops, is that considered an electronic musician?

If so,it's an extremely loose definition

[Propellerhands]

Different opinion. I have seen countless examples of people who know how to play an instrument, and do it pretty well, but most of them do not produce any kind of music. Or if they do, they never share it with the world. So what gives? If you can't produce a single track, are you really a musician? Just because you play an instrument? Not aimed at anyone here, just wanted to give a perspective to people who think not being able to play an instrument is kind of a proof that you ain't a musician. Maybe so, by the old traditional standards. In old times you had to play something, there were no computers to do the sounds for you.

But nowadays, knowledge quite often makes one lose creativity (especially public education making kids into zombies). Learning an instrument may help some people, but definitely not all of them. There is a saying that one must know the rules first in order to break them, and I would disagree. Again, seen too many people who know all the rules and play piano or guitar wonderful but their music is just boring and uninspiring. So to say that playing an instrument helps 100 percent of the time is a huge stretch. It may help some, may not to others. What is more important is practice in general and listening to all types of music and more practice. It took me 2 years to create something that I wanted to share with others apart from my family. Nowadays people want to get everything at this very second. Eh..

[Hink]

If you can't produce a single track, are you really a musician? Just because you play an instrument?

ask them, that is The Boston Symphony Orchestra...I dont know whether any of them produce tracks but still, there are many, many, many musicians who study music, get degrees in music and do not produce music and if I am going to call a person who's only instrument is the computer than sure those who have dedicated their lives to their own musicianship also deserve the respect of being called a musician.

[Aiynzahev]

Most people don't attempt making music (or art in general). Out of the few people that actually sit down and try to write a track AND record/save it - much fewer still reach a point where someone else would be interested in it beyond simply listening once to critique it and then move on.

The typical "electronic producer" scenario where someone with no musical background sits down with a DAW with a blank sequencer staring back at them, is especially difficult. Possibly the most difficult thing one could try that could still be approached merely as a hobby. The demands between learning the DAW itself, sound design, synthesis, modulation, the endless complexity of FX and dynamics etc, mixing, melodies and harmony, writing and structuring actual music and so on... It's ridiculous. I would not be surprised if 95% of the people that reach even that point - get filtered out there and then. At least if you have a bit of guitar or piano background or similar, you will know some basic music theory and have some amount of dexterity that will help out with the MIDI keyboard/controller you no doubt should have, so you're not starting with close to or absolutely nothing.

When i started out i had no MIDI controller and didn't even know what chords were, it was something i had to figure out in the Fruity Loops piano roll. It actually went something like "man why does these melodies sound so bland and thin" - which led to me quickly realizing you could stack notes vertically to make interesting things happen. My point is that it is easy to forget just how difficult these things are to someone with - zero - experience. After a certain point you just have no idea how it is for a beginner unless you REALLY start thinking about it, so much is subconsciously automated and filtered by relevance according to your particular workflow and so on.

Why are there often several "volume" knobs all over the place for each thing? Why is there like a billion different things that affect the longevity of a sound? What is the real difference between a reverb and a delay, they both seem to simulate sound bouncing back from things, somewhat? How do i get a massive reverb sound without bloating everything? How do i get an intimate reverb sound that doesn't sound like a bathroom? How do i make transitions between sections of my tracks without the subtle flavor of falling flat onto a concrete floor? I made a nice chord progression but it loops poorly because the first and last chord mix like wine and toothpaste? Why does this filter even have an envelope? Why does my synth sound slightly different every time it's played? Why does my synth only play one note when there's a chord in the piano roll? Why does this synth preset sound like a chord and how do i make it "normal" and not sounding like a house or rave stereotype? Why can i move my melody up and down the piano roll and it sounds like the same melody even though it uses different notes? Why won't this (FM) synth sound like a Rank 1 trance lead? I bounced something to audio but it loops awkwardly? How do i know which velocity curve on my MIDI keyboard is best suited for what i am doing? I have this bass sound i like but it only sounds good in a certain range of notes that doesn't work with the rest of my synths and the same goes for them? How do i make percussion that sound like these soaring groovy Vengeance loops instead of some variation of an old disco/house drum machine? Why doesn't my DnB drum pattern sound like actual DnB and more like 90s pop ballads with higher BPM even though the beat is a straight clone of my favorite DnB track? How the f**k could you possibly "compress" something "upwards"? I use 192KHz like that guy on the forum told me to but is it really the best? How do i mix without compromising? Do i need to tune my kicks? Should i put OTT before or after Soundgoodizer? Why isn't Ishkurs guide to electronic music ever updated? I made a thread about which is the best synth and all i got was 20 pages of people laughing at me?

Madness

This post is hilarious and true.

When I got into more complicated video work it hit me just what starting from nothing feels like, even with all the resources out there it can still be really difficult to find your footing.

[Propellerhands]

If you can't produce a single track, are you really a musician? Just because you play an instrument?

ask them, that is The Boston Symphony Orchestra...I dont know whether any of them produce tracks but still, there are many, many, many musicians who study music, get degrees in music and do not produce music and if I am going to call a person who's only instrument is the computer than sure those who have dedicated their lives to their own musicianship also deserve the respect of being called a musician.

Again, that's traditional understanding of the word, like I mentioned, you also could have included a regular band, like Metallica (well they release their music, so ok your example is better). Way easier to prove your point. They do not need to release their music because they are playing in front of an audience already. My point however was about those people who play their guitars or pianos only in front of their pets or family (if at all).

[Propellerhands]

This post is hilarious and true.

When I got into more complicated video work it hit me just what starting from nothing feels like, even with all the resources out there it can still be really difficult to find your footing.

That's what people sitting on the "learn an instrument!" high horse do not understand. Like I said, just because someone knows, perfectly knows, a genius, some sort of instrument, is he really a musician if nobody ever hears him or her? Your average 16 year old bedroom producer like martin garlix is more of a musician than some piano student who just knows how to play piano at school and that's it. And only because his parents literally forced him to go to piano school.

Kids like Garlix etc. were never forced to pick up music, they heard a calling (poetic words), sensed something that it is best way to express themselves and so they started writing/creating music.

I used to be a purist too, but as time went by I realized, knowing how to play an instrument is quite common and not impressive, just practice for a few years everyday and that's it.

Creating a track from scratch (or presets lol), releasing it, getting audience, making a living - now that's something!

[Hink]

If you can't produce a single track, are you really a musician? Just because you play an instrument?

ask them, that is The Boston Symphony Orchestra...I dont know whether any of them produce tracks but still, there are many, many, many musicians who study music, get degrees in music and do not produce music and if I am going to call a person who's only instrument is the computer than sure those who have dedicated their lives to their own musicianship also deserve the respect of being called a musician.

Again, that's traditional understanding of the word, like I mentioned, you also could have included a regular band, like Metallica (well they release their music, so ok your example is better). Way easier to prove your point. They do not need to release their music because they are playing in front of an audience already. My point however was about those people who play their guitars or pianos only in front of their pets or family (if at all).

no that wasnt the point, they dont release music because that is not where their passion lies. Their passion is their instrument and performing and it doesnt matter if it's in front of you pets and family or the biggest show ever. Sorry but I think that takes a very small mind to make such a comment, I got my first guitar in 1971 and it's still my passion. I havent made money off of my music (but one song went on a katrina CD we did here and another on a haiti relief CD we did here), I dont need others validation but this is blatantly ignorant.

Many like myself have no problem calling bedroom producers who only have computers musicians, but for one person to come back and question the musicianship of those who STUDIED and instrument for years, decades and lifetimes...it is just plain offensive...to you.