only audio and midi via usb in the future period

[cthonophonic]

no.

[BertKoor]

I understand the idea of the OP is something that "just works", without issues, always and everywhere.
Analog audio and midi over 5-pole DIN are exactly that.

USB cables are just not reliable enough. So cable manufacturers will be very happy if USB becomes the standard for everything.

Especially audio over USB introduces buffers with latency, sample rate conversions, clock sync issues, etc etc.

[AdvancedFollower]

The difference is that synthesizers aren't computer peripherals, they're musical instruments foremost. So the comparison to a mouse is a bit odd. It's like asking for a USB cable for acoustic guitars and pianos. It also ignores all analog synths which by their nature produce an analog audio signal.

[chk071]

I understand the idea of the OP is something that "just works", without issues, always and everywhere.
Analog audio and midi over 5-pole DIN are exactly that.

USB cables are just not reliable enough. So cable manufacturers will be very happy if USB becomes the standard for everything.

Especially audio over USB introduces buffers with latency, sample rate conversions, clock sync issues, etc etc.

It's interesting to read that, when all audio interfaces are connected via USB, unless you use an internal card, which, I assume, the least of us do.

[BertKoor]

@chk071: One audio interface, with ASIO, that's kind of fine. But each synth having it's own USB connection, it's own sample rate and clock, it's own class-compliant audio driver, that's waiting for trouble to happen.

At least on Mac you can create an aggregate device. On windows, ASIO is king of drivers. Alas ASIO specs "one ASIO client only per app" so devices cannot be aggregated. Yeah, there's the Einstein mode of Asio4All, which still is a hack.

[xtreme sounds]

It doesnt have to be USB. But one cable to do it all. plug and play and it just works. having cables everywhere and setup menus, drivers etc is too much. and if one thing changes it can mess everything up. Every device connects its own way and its too complicated. How about this. Send me an example of an easy setup with as few cables as possible and it just works. 3 hardware synths and 1 ipad and a few midi controllers and you can do live performance and recording quick and easy every time without having to go through everything over and over to make sure it all works.

[vurt]

just use soft synths, no cables besides usb for midi.

[Tj Shredder]

Exactly that! Also depends on the synth. If you have analog synths, you need an audio interface anyway. If its a digital synth, you need to deal with a fixed sample rate and the best sample rate converter is actually a DAC -> ADC…
I avoid DIN Midi, and have only very few devices left which never leave the studio… My collection of controllers need (powered) hubs anyway, as I have never seen a computer with 30+ inputs…
All audio interfaces I used in the last 20 years comply to what is demanded in the first post. They carry audio and Midi without problems… Has a Windows machine still those problems some describe in this thread? An aggregate device on Mac can also combine devices with different sample rates, but I feel safer when I just mix inputs in an audio interface, which I need anyway…

[kritikon]

It doesnt have to be USB. But one cable to do it all. plug and play and it just works. having cables everywhere and setup menus, drivers etc is too much. and if one thing changes it can mess everything up. Every device connects its own way and its too complicated. How about this. Send me an example of an easy setup with as few cables as possible and it just works. 3 hardware synths and 1 ipad and a few midi controllers and you can do live performance and recording quick and easy every time without having to go through everything over and over to make sure it all works.

As mentioned - use all s/w.
Otherwise cables are a fact of life for electronic musicians. Learn to live with it or die frustrated.

Conceivably one day everything might go wi-fi, which then brings in more trouble for reception, bandwidth etc. I know for damn sure I can't rely on internet where I live.

Maybe it'll all go bluetooth - already you can buy bluetooth audio boxes, but that's pretty well a no-go already as the proximity needed would f**k up way too many things.

There will likely be some other way of transmitting that will be developed. You might wait a long time for that.

And then there's all the old gear (as in everything up to today) that still need cables/midi to talk to each other. They become redundant. Nobody's going to go along with that.

TBH you're barking up a head-banging-against-brick-wall tree. Unless you use just 1 item of gear then audio and midi cables are by far the best way and with only limited amounts of gear it really isn't difficult. Midi hasn't been dicked around with much over the decades for good reason. It works. Could be better in some areas but overall - most are quite happy with it. Audio cables - yeah you can amass a stupendous amount of spaghetti but it doesn't sound like you have too much to be manageable.

You mentioned drivers. One of the huge benefits of using lots of h/w in my case is exactly that - I don't need any drivers for them. At all. They work on their own, they work connected together via a mixer, they work with my DAW without any need for drivers. I get by quite happily with just drivers for my audio box and whatever the DAW needs. TBH I find it an annoyance that newer synths have OSs that need updating. Pain in the f**king arse IMO.

[CapnLockheed]

Yet another KVR Classic.

[pixel85]

Exactly that! Also depends on the synth. If you have analog synths, you need an audio interface anyway. If its a digital synth, you need to deal with a fixed sample rate and the best sample rate converter is actually a DAC -> ADC…
I avoid DIN Midi, and have only very few devices left which never leave the studio… My collection of controllers need (powered) hubs anyway, as I have never seen a computer with 30+ inputs…
All audio interfaces I used in the last 20 years comply to what is demanded in the first post. They carry audio and Midi without problems… Has a Windows machine still those problems some describe in this thread? An aggregate device on Mac can also combine devices with different sample rates, but I feel safer when I just mix inputs in an audio interface, which I need anyway…

Windows has still tons of problems with USB. Starting from messy ID assignation (when you plug the same device to USB A port, then USB B, then back to USB A, you may have 3 different devices in Windows already. This way I lost Waves licenses after I put them on USB stick.
Sometimes devices work connected to port A but not to port B even that both have exactly the same specs.
Another example: just look at instructions how to do update for Korg Wavestate/Modwave/Opsix on PC vs Mac
Intel, AMD, no matter which MB manufacturer, there's always something wrong with USB and Windows.

But I'm not saying that Mac's don't have issues in this matter My wife uses them and I can see both sides "in action".

[Shockspoon]

If there was no latency issues, I would prefer WiFi, no wires at all:)

[AdvancedFollower]

Another example: just look at instructions how to do update for Korg Wavestate/Modwave/Opsix on PC vs Mac

Korg are the only ones with this problem because their driver developers are lazy. It's not really related to the USB ID but rather the MIDI device number, which they for some arbitrary reason have decided cannot exceed 10. This can happen if you switch USB ports for your USB MIDI devices, but it can just as well result from simply having used more than 10 separate USB MIDI devices over the life span of your current Windows installation (since the numbers are cumulative).

Besides, the whole thing is completely unnecessary since nearly all other manufacturers get by using class compliant USB MIDI which doesn't require proprietary drivers in the first place and doesn't rely on the MIDI device number falling within a certain range.

[pixel85]

Another example: just look at instructions how to do update for Korg Wavestate/Modwave/Opsix on PC vs Mac

Korg are the only ones with this problem because their driver developers are lazy. It's not really related to the USB ID but rather the MIDI device number, which they for some arbitrary reason have decided cannot exceed 10. This can happen if you switch USB ports for your USB MIDI devices, but it can just as well result from simply having used more than 10 separate USB MIDI devices over the life span of your current Windows installation (since the numbers are cumulative).

Besides, the whole thing is completely unnecessary since nearly all other manufacturers get by using class compliant USB MIDI which doesn't require proprietary drivers in the first place and doesn't rely on the MIDI device number falling within a certain range.

Yeah I know that this is ridiculous and it's totally Korg's fault. I just wanted to show one of more crazy examples
I don't understand why more people don't call them out. I have Wavestate on my list and the sight of "adventures of updating Wavestate" on many forums, including theirs, extinguishes my GAS quite a bit at the beginning.
They can program advanced digital synths but USB drivers seem to be their "final boss" that they can't beat for some reason.

[kritikon]

I'm very much a fanboy of Wavestate and Korg in general, but must admit that updating the Wavestate - at first read I must have said aloud "WTF!?" quite a few times. There was one point at which I very nearly said "f**k it" and decided to leave it alone as v1.0 for ever. I must have updated it 4 or 5 times now and every time I assume it'll be a piece of cake, as I've done it before. Every time I have to aciduously rtfm as it doesn't happen otherwise. You seem to have to update drivers now matter how many times you've already updated drivers. Don't think I've ever seen such a ridiculous update system.

To be fair to them, they released very good instruction on how to do it. For non-coding people like me, they have to because if you don't follow the letter of their instructions, it fails. And no way on this god's earth you'd figure out how on your own. I did it once with both Wavestate then Opsix immediately after. I assumed ( ) that after I updated Wavestate, I'd be able to update Opsix the same way without RTFingM but no. Still had to aciduously follow the instructions.

Korg seem a bit like a certain famous physicist - can make wondrous ideas for synths but can't change their own underpants.