Reason 12 is here

[sQeetz]

Yes, that's the point - they're absurdly slow, yet expect to get paid as if they would deliver healthily.

But to be fair, in this case we don't know how much of this slowdown is thanks to Apple (as they apparently aim to release M1 support and VST3 within the same update).

VST3 support is supposed to come before M1. The way I understand their communication, is that they first want to get the one ready before the other. So Apple Silicon support is, so far as I got it, no hinderance.

[SLiC]

They are the slowest of the slow for updating what for many are essentials and should have been in the V12 release, it does them a real disservice that they push out little players rather than provide the important updates. Probably linked to trying to keep subscribers happy (another reason I dislike subscription even when you have a perpetual licence...priorities skewed)

[sQeetz]

The only reason (pun, not) I put up with it, is because it's not my main DAW. If it was was, I would be really pissed

[jens]

Fwiw it's my main DAW...

Yes, that's the point - they're absurdly slow, yet expect to get paid as if they would deliver healthily.

But to be fair, in this case we don't know how much of this slowdown is thanks to Apple (as they apparently aim to release M1 support and VST3 within the same update).

VST3 support is supposed to come before M1. The way I understand their communication, is that they first want to get the one ready before the other. So Apple Silicon support is, so far as I got it, no hinderance.

Ah, yes, they changed their plans this year - they way I understod their original roadmap from last year, it was supposed to be in the same update.

[sQeetz]

Fwiw it's my main DAW...

poor you....

[Tronam]

Yes, that's the point - they're absurdly slow, yet expect to get paid as if they would deliver healthily.

But to be fair, in this case we don't know how much of this slowdown is thanks to Apple (as they apparently aim to release M1 support and VST3 within the same update).

It took Ableton 11 years to implement VST3 support and just a little over a year for M1. Steinberg went above and beyond to make this transition as painful and inconvenient as possible.

[Trensharo]

There is a lot of QoL missing from it as a DAW. Things like Midi Retrospective recording. It is great as a groovebox, though. Sort of feels like Maschine software, except it adds a lot of the things those users have been asking for. Lol

I don't see much use in the rack plugin, though. .out stuff in there is redundant and the stock sample content and drum kits are mediocre-terrible.

The synths are fine, but... redundant.

The players are okay when there isn't a third party VST that does the same job better and costs less (e.g. Scaler 2, BreakTweaker).

I can see why they market so heavily to beatmakers, though. It feels strongest in that market segment. Too bad there isn't a nice 1st party hardware co trolleys for it.

It took Ableton 11 years to implement VST3 support and just a little over a year for M1. Steinberg went above and beyond to make this transition as painful and inconvenient as possible.

MIDI Routing for VST Plugins, Track Folders, Retrospective Recording, etc.

Those are some of the basic features missing, so those DAW already had competitive advantages in other areas.

Plus, they are M1 Native. Reason could theoretically have gotten there ahead of them, but didn't. I don't see how those developers getting it done faster can be spun into a story where it is "not much better." Weird analysis.

And how did Steinberg make the transition as painful as possible? By dropping VST2 that's been deprecated for almost a decade and out of development for several years?

I'll also say that the Reason MIDI Control Implementation needs an overhaul. No controllers I have here can really control the main mixer. Only the 14:2 and 6:2 mixers. You're basically limited to Nektar for good controller support, AFAICT.

How long did it take Propellerhead to implement VST2 support, BTW?

[chk071]

Yes, that's the point - they're absurdly slow, yet expect to get paid as if they would deliver healthily.

But to be fair, in this case we don't know how much of this slowdown is thanks to Apple (as they apparently aim to release M1 support and VST3 within the same update).

It took Ableton 11 years to implement VST3 support and just a little over a year for M1. Steinberg went above and beyond to make this transition as painful and inconvenient as possible.

Or the Ableton boys and girls simply didn't deem it necessary to have VST3 support for a long time. Other DAW's had it very early.

[jens]

Fwiw it's my main DAW...

poor you....

It's really so frustrating - there has basically been next to no improvement for the DAW itself for several years now. It's like abandonware, except it's not. The level of audacity is truly stunning, to say the least.

And yet here I am still because in some ways it's just so good. I mostly work with (self-recorded) audio - lots of it - and for this Reason is still the best in my book*, even though it has severe shortcomings even regarding the audio-side of things.


*Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood: if I was tracking a band (or an orchestra), there'd be no way I'd use Reason for that. But in my case it's all me switching instruments all the time (back and forth and then something new and back and forth yadda yadda) and often recording dozens of takes (I have no time to rehearse my parts beforehand of course, so I do that during tracking (i.e. I often basically develop the parts while I am recording until I am satisfied; often recording/developing alternative parts/variations while I am at it) - and I challenge you to name a DAW that would be better suited for that than Reason. I'm convinced it doesn't exist.

[EnochLight]

Fwiw it's my main DAW...

poor you....

It's my main DAW as well, and it's not so bad. I did buy Ableton Live 11 Suite on a whim though (Black Friday sale), during Reason 12's tumultuous launch (at the time, performance issues on my primary machine). Only to discover that Ableton Live 11 had its own set of performance issues on the same machine - LOL! But I play to each other's strengths - I enjoy Live's Clip based loop/launch workflow, but I also find working in Reason 10x more inspiring and tend to get more done. But maybe that's because I'm a relatively new Ableton Live DAW user? I'm sure I'll come around to it.

[jjpscott01]

I've jumped to other DAW's many times over the years but always seem to come back to Reason. Its just the most enjoyable to music with in my opinion. As far as features goes, for what I need it has everything I need to make the music I want and its extremely powerful. In fact, I was making better music before they opened it up to VST's probably because the lack of options kept me focused and I had all the effects I needed through Rack Extensions. Just something about the Rack and and the way Reason works that inspires me to actually make music.

[hotmitts]

Just something about the Rack and and the way Reason works that inspires me to actually make music.

That's important, and also despite a few hiccup periods I have just found it very stable and smooth running. You don't have to pause during music making, you can keep things going, browse and audition anything while playing, and so forth.

Of course frustrating that it misses basic refinements to the DAW aspect, little obvious things like an extensive markers system.

[jens]

Yes, Reason is indeed easily the most stable DAW/host I've ever used... it very rarely crashes.

[JockMcRonan]

outta here

[Propellerhands]

feel immensely underwhelmed by the sounds.

What do you mean? Presets/patches? I would agree half of Reason presets are crap, especially for older synths. But in general, their samples (drums, strings) are decent or good. And there are tons of them, I haven't even touched 90 percent of them because rarely browse, just make my own.