Non-emulation VA synth recommendations.

[Uncle E]

I imagine any instrument that can also be run as an effect can do that, can't it?

Yes, you're right. I was just hoping to mix the external audio with the synth's own oscillators. Really, all I need is for Kontakt to have oscillators.

[gentleclockdivider]

None of the osc are mod sources in D1

Do you mean destinations?

The are available as sources straight from the panel , at least for the example I gave .
Master sync osc——>sync slave osc
Master sync osc—>FM’ing sync slave osc.
Both can happen at once in dune 1, prophet 5 , jupiter 6 , oddisey etc..

So you're doing the modulation in the host then?

No , just the gui of dune 1 , when I used to use it
My point was that dune 3 can’t do that .

[digitalboytn]

I find ANA 2 much easier to program and the sounds always sit great in the mix...

The basic architecture of the synth is similar to DUNE 3,but the programming is much deeper in ANA 2.

Sorry but I have to call you out on this one. I'm not sure how anyone can say the programming is much deeper in a 6 OSC (3 Wavetable 3 Sampler) synth than a 24 Osc synth (16 VA or WT or FM, 8 Sample or VA Oscs). ANA lacks the WT creator and dual FX lanes. ANA does have 45 filter types compared to D3's 31 so edge there but D3 can have 16 different filters in a single patch.

I will agree that ANA 2's Arp/Seq is more advanced than DUNE 3's but the ability to choose Arp 1, Arp 2 or Bypass Both in D3 is a great feature and opens up a lot of sound design possibilities. The Chord Memory Device of ANA 2 is a great feature so points there.

I like ANA 2 a lot and it's in my top 10 working lineup. I like Spire too and it's worked its way into my top 5 but back to the subject of this thread if I want to do VA I'm reaching for DUNE 3 each and every time.

Really the bottom line is all of the recommendations made in this thread are great choices. You can't really go wrong with any of them.

Preferences are subjective and personal so the OP just needs to demo them all and find out which one(s) he prefers.....or stick with what he has.

OK...I understand the validity of the layers argument...

But try this very simple task in a single layer...

Assign Oscillator 1 to Filter 1,Oscillator 2 to Filter 2 and Oscillator 3 bypassing both filters ....

[revvy]

Was thinking about which M1-native synth to replace my beloved Sylenth with.

I'd decided Dune 3 when it next gets a discount, but now ANA2 is making a strong challenge....

[Arashi]

To me the most underrated VA on the market that is not a direct emulation is DUNE 3. It has a sweetness and hi def quality that I find very pleasing and is capable of monster patches and very simple ones as well.

As always try the demo to decide for yourself.

100%. Very powerful and flexible, and it sounds incredible. The effects are really good too.

[zerocrossing]

One thing that doesn't get mentioned enough is DUNE 3's Sample Osc. No, it's not multi-sample and yes we all wish it was although you can load 8 different samples into the Layers.

Are there synths let you run external audio as "oscillators", side-by-side with the internal oscillators? I think Logic ES1 does it. That would be better than having a sample oscillator.

Sure, and it’s free. https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/

[zerocrossing]

Dune is great but the lack of real master-slave sync osc is a real misser , dune's 3 osc sync slaves to an internal master osc .

Why is it a problem? It’s better in a way, because you don’t lose an oscillator to get sync. It’s not like the sync osc isn’t modulatable. Works just like regular osc sync, but better.

Because it doesn't allow some configurations which yield great results , like modulating the frequency of the synced slave by the master osc etc ..as found in the prophet 5 , jupiter 6 , odyssey etc..

It’s in the mod matrix.

[_morton_]

None of the osc are mod sources in D1

Do you mean destinations?

The are available as sources straight from the panel , at least for the example I gave .
Master sync osc——>sync slave osc
Master sync osc—>FM’ing sync slave osc.
Both can happen at once in dune 1, prophet 5 , jupiter 6 , oddisey etc..

So you're doing the modulation in the host then?

No , just the gui of dune 1 , when I used to use it
My point was that dune 3 can’t do that .

Yes, so you are recording the knob movement (modulation) in the host

I'm just trying to understand what you are doing, for everyone's benefit

[_morton_]

I imagine any instrument that can also be run as an effect can do that, can't it?

Yes, you're right. I was just hoping to mix the external audio with the synth's own oscillators. Really, all I need is for Kontakt to have oscillators.

Wasn't there a version of zebra2 that did that, unofficially? It was removed as I recall

[zerocrossing]

I imagine any instrument that can also be run as an effect can do that, can't it?

Yes, you're right. I was just hoping to mix the external audio with the synth's own oscillators. Really, all I need is for Kontakt to have oscillators.

Wasn't there a version of zebra2 that did that, unofficially? It was removed as I recall

I believe there was… I wonder why it got removed.

[Teksonik]

Are you really that slow ?
Ok here goes , in most synths an oscilator is synced to another osc .
The osc that is synced= slave
The osc that provides the basic pitch = master sync osc .
Now , if the modulate the frequency of the slave osc by the master osc + regular sync ,there are two things happening
1: the slave freq cycles are reset by the master sync osc .(
2: the slave frequency is ALSO being modulated at fm rate by the master sync osc .( frequency modulation)
Now ,in dune 3 , THE MASTER SYNC osc is NOT available as a mod source , because it’s some kind of hidden osc. ( like in zebra) there fore frequency modulation of slave by master is not possible If you still don’t understand , I give up

You seem to be incapable of understanding the salient point. Again post a hard sync patch from DUNE 1 that can't be done in DUNE 3.

Again I've made a lot of great sounding hard sync patches in DUNE 3 so to me your complaint has no practical point.

But once again you point out the fact that there are people who spend time looking for any perceived flaw no matter how small in a synth and then there are those who actually use that synth with great pleasure on a daily basis.

You'd have to be slow not to understand who is more productive.

[Teksonik]

I like ANA 2 a lot and it's in my top 10 working lineup. I like Spire too and it's worked its way into my top 5 but back to the subject of this thread if I want to do VA I'm reaching for DUNE 3 each and every time.

Wow Tek, for someone who pooh-poohed Spire for quite a while thats pretty impressive

Some people are capable of changing their opinions.

I never really liked Spire when I demoed it but after buying it in a hard to resist sale, over time I've come to like it a lot.

It's got a very aggressive sound that compliments DUNE 3, Hive2, Predator 3, etc very well. Spire may not be the first synth I reach for but when I'm looking for an aggressive digital sound it's one of the first synths I reach for......

[zerocrossing]

I find ANA 2 much easier to program and the sounds always sit great in the mix...

The basic architecture of the synth is similar to DUNE 3,but the programming is much deeper in ANA 2.

Sorry but I have to call you out on this one. I'm not sure how anyone can say the programming is much deeper in a 6 OSC (3 Wavetable 3 Sampler) synth than a 24 Osc synth (16 VA or WT or FM, 8 Sample or VA Oscs). ANA lacks the WT creator and dual FX lanes. ANA does have 45 filter types compared to D3's 31 so edge there but D3 can have 16 different filters in a single patch.

I will agree that ANA 2's Arp/Seq is more advanced than DUNE 3's but the ability to choose Arp 1, Arp 2 or Bypass Both in D3 is a great feature and opens up a lot of sound design possibilities. The Chord Memory Device of ANA 2 is a great feature so points there.

I like ANA 2 a lot and it's in my top 10 working lineup. I like Spire too and it's worked its way into my top 5 but back to the subject of this thread if I want to do VA I'm reaching for DUNE 3 each and every time.

Really the bottom line is all of the recommendations made in this thread are great choices. You can't really go wrong with any of them.

Preferences are subjective and personal so the OP just needs to demo them all and find out which one(s) he prefers.....or stick with what he has.

OK...I understand the validity of the layers argument...

But try this very simple task in a single layer...

Assign Oscillator 1 to Filter 1,Oscillator 2 to Filter 2 and Oscillator 3 bypassing both filters ....

Why insist on a single layer when you have multiple layers? You can’t compare to things by ignoring a major feature of one thing. I’d actually love it if Dune had filter routing like you described, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t easily achieve the same result, and actually a lot more, with layers.

[Teksonik]

OK...I understand the validity of the layers argument...
But try this very simple task in a single layer...
Assign Oscillator 1 to Filter 1,Oscillator 2 to Filter 2 and Oscillator 3 bypassing both filters

You've perfectly pointed out the power of the layers.

Osc 1 to filter 1 (and filter 2 if you wish) Layer 1
Osc 2 to different filter(s) in Layer 2
Osc 3 no filter Layer 3.

And so on....

I am far more likely to use another layer than I am another Osc in a single layer. That allows more routing options and allows you to quickly Mute/Solo layers. You can build very complex patches by mixing engine types and never come close to running out of Layers.

[Teksonik]

Why insist on a single layer when you have multiple layers? You can’t compare to things by ignoring a major feature of one thing. I’d actually love it if Dune had filter routing like you described, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t easily achieve the same result, and actually a lot more, with layers.

Exactly!

As I pointed out above we can look at the Layers like separate Oscs in a larger synth. That allows more routing options like FX 1 and/or FX 2 or no FX, the choice of different filters, envelope settings etc etc.

I've seen the request for Filter routing inside a single layer made several times in the past but I don't know where that request stands in the list of other requests.

Since we can already accomplish the same thing using layers I wouldn't think it's a high priority but I have no idea what plans Synapse has for DUNE 3.

I doubt it's a finished product so no telling what the future holds......