Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

[Andreya_Autumn]

No sidechaining, no additional channels. I simply apply fx to some midi parts and let them stay on the track for convenience's sake. My other vsts work fine with this, no need to set anything, it just works. I'll check out that input oscillator. Thanks.

Come back if you don't get it to work, I'm sure it can be sorted out!

[Bojo34]

Come back if you don't get it to work, I'm sure it can be sorted out!

I'd be happy if you could dumb it down for me. Where do I find the input oscillator? What is audio sidechaining doing? The typical scenario where you would want it? Thanks.

[Andreya_Autumn]

Happy to help, first some clarifying questions.
Are you asking about audio sidechains in general, or just how Surge uses them?
Like, should I assume you know how to use the plugin pin routing in reaper already?


I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you want to do, but after reading your last post again I'm guessing you're right-clicking your MIDI regions in reaper and selecting "apply fx as new take" to generate audio regions instead? Maybe to save CPU?
If that's what you're doing, let me just advice you to use the "render" or "freeze" options instead. Those will work more predictably with MIDI instruments, the "apply fx" workflow is intended to process audio items really.

[Bojo34]

Happy to help, first some clarifying questions.
Are you asking about audio sidechains in general, or just how Surge uses them?
Like, should I assume you know how to use the plugin pin routing in reaper already?


I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you want to do, but after reading your last post again I'm guessing you're right-clicking your MIDI regions in reaper and selecting "apply fx as new take" to generate audio regions instead? Maybe to save CPU?
If that's what you're doing, let me just advice you to use the "render" or "freeze" options instead. Those will work more predictably with MIDI instruments, the "apply fx" workflow is intended to process audio items really.

You're right about the right-clicking to generate audio regions. I do that with audio and midi as well. I also render midi to audio when I find it more accurate, but mostly the apply fx just works.

I rarely use more than 10-12 tracks, simply because I want to see all tracks and mixer channels without scrolling back and forth. Sometimes I even have different "instruments" (audio) on the same track, many simple ways to make that work. I may use a track envelope or two if needed, but that's about it. I like a tidy ship.

I have never come across that audio sidechain thing in a synth. I may have heard about it, like so many other things. I know how to do it with a compressor but have never found a use for it where it makes ALL the difference.

These days, I watch YouTube videos and try to learn synthesis, sound design, and whatnot. I watched Surge XT -- the movie (good one) but it's still early days.

[Chris-S]

To get a clean audio passthrough via audio-input-operator seems not to be easy because the input audio is affected by the Amp-Envelope and in poly mode the input level builds up.
But there is another workaround in REAPER: Use the dry-wet knob in the top-right corner near the UI-button.
Here you can mix for example 50% of the surge-output into the audio-stream.

EDIT: There is a preset in Templates : Audio In Stereo-OSC1 which is working good.

EDIT2: https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/su ... nd-vocoder

[baconpaul]

This is not a surge problem this is just how reaper works when you have a plugin which takes inputs. Surge is a bit unique in that it is a synth with inputs, but any other vocoder would have the same problem.

You can route around it in reaper a million ways. Here's one

1. Make your channel stack have a mixer before and after surge
2. In the pin diagram of the first mixer add 2 extra channels so that your input goes to 3/4 rather than 1/2

Screen Shot 2022-08-30 at 12.44.55 PM.png

3. In surge pin diagram disconnect 1/2 from the side chain input (if this is what you want. You can also keep it side chained if you like)

Screen Shot 2022-08-30 at 12.45.15 PM.png

this means that your audio on your track goes to 3/4 and passes 'around' surge

4. In the final mixer smash them back together so you get surge and your audio

Screen Shot 2022-08-30 at 12.45.03 PM.png

Million ways to do it. The key insight is by default surge consumes audio input for its graph (which you can use for a lot of things like audio input oscillator, string excitation, vocoding and more) but if that's not what you want you need to route your audio around surge.

[Bojo34]

Chris and paul, thank you for your time and effort. Much appreciated. I will take a deeper look at Surge and its capabilities, no doubt.

[Chris-S]

Well we're not changing it for the time being. Need more stereo, use Vital.

But can't the M/S tool of the effect section be used to widen the sound?
To check this for yourself I attach the patch Trance Arena(*). With Macro3 the M/S balance can be changed.

Trance_Arena.zip

(*) PS: Trance Arena is a clone of a VIPER preset

[EvilDragon]

Wow, a post from over a year ago, somebody's been reading, hehe

You could indeed use some mid-side tricks. But unison panning laws is not going to happen for some more time to come (maybe we give it a shot for XT2.0, no promises).

[Chris-S]

I don't see a need for this. You can also make a dual patch with hard panned A/B parts.....
Enough stereo options available IMO.

[EvilDragon]

There are certain merits in not panning things linearly with unison, which is why we do have that particular issue written up on GitHub to investigate some day.

[baconpaul]

Yeah some MPE widening gestures on a voice level would be nice. But indeed for today there's plenty you can do!

[Chris-S]

Do I see right that there is no "scenestate" object for the formular-LFO to get the scene variables like lowkey and highkey?

Is there ANY possibility to get the list of the momentary pressed keys/notes?

[Andreya_Autumn]

I'm not 100% (Paul or ED should know better), but I think you're right.

For lowest/highest key you could use the LFOEG parameter trick, which I assume you're familiar with?

[Chris-S]

So, to modulate the (Scene-)LFO-EG sliders with low/highkey and reading them within the script?