Mixing claps in 90s trance

[TW1306]

This is something that I've particularly been struggling with: no matter which samples I use it's difficult to get any kick + clap combination to sound 'natural'. Even when using an existing track as a 'guideline' it's difficult to get something that doesn't sound odd. Are there any tips for how clap sounds were processed/mixed back then?
I'd especially be interested in what reverbs to use, for the longest time I've been making do with Reason's RV7000 for just about everything but would love to know if there are any 90s-trance reverbs that would be better suited.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

[RyanM12]

You may need to nudge it forward/back on the grid.

[TW1306]

I try that, and layering, reverb, EQing, all those things and yet it's still almost impossible to make it sound 'good', even when using an existing track as reference.

[Aiynzahev]

Can you post examples of your mix?

[telecharge]

A lot of '90s dance music used drum machines, so I would start with a 909 or 808 sample/instrument, process with a transient shaper/designer, and run it through an analog emulation (tape/tube/transistor).

[Aloysius]

Can you link to some reference tracks?

[Unaspected]

If you're looking to get both to sit together a little better, have you processed them at a group buss yet? Sharing the same processing at some point should help.

You might also want to reduce the sample rate on your claps.

[TW1306]

Can you link to some reference tracks?

There's thousands of tracks I could pick from so this is just a few, but I think they more or less represent the kind of thing I'm aiming for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpI2KFPA3wo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x4c4Kz1gBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRn267kE_dQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cynwTHMvsKM

[eidetic]

I know what you mean. I have this problem with snares. I hate choosing snares.

Those four tracks all have different clap sounds. Nice choices.

The first track is what I’d consider the standard clap. I’m pretty sure it’s a processed 909, but I might be wrong. The standard, unprocessed 909 clap has always sounded abrasive to me. Like clapping with sandpaper. But when it’s processed well, it’s much more palatable.

I really like how the open hat and clap are playing off each other on the second track. I can’t make out what kind of clap it is.

Pretty sure the last two are 909s, less processed.

For reverb, Midiverbs and Lexicons were popular. If you aren’t already, only use one or two reverb sends for all instruments to use, to mimic the limited sends that would have been available on a mixing console.

As mentioned in an earlier reply, 909 and 808 claps were the most common (707 wouldn’t have been unusual). It was popular to use samples of them, even “back in the day” so pitching them up and down is still a method you can use if you’re trying to stick to 90s.

Try to keep it simple. Just one layer, pitched one or two semitones up or down, cut off the low end, maybe some high (but I’ve found this can backfire most times).

But the two key things for me have been: turn the volume down more than you think and just move on. As I mentioned, I have the same issue with snares. I find if I pick something close to what I want, lower the track in the mix, and move on, I realize later it sounds perfect.

And as you’ve shown from the four examples you gave, claps vary greatly even within a genre. You’ve got lots of room to work with.

If you aren’t happy with samples you have available, try a 90s themed techno (not trance) drum sample pack which should have just the right amount of processing to shape the clap.

Hope that helps, good luck!

[machine_spirit]

Any advice is greatly appreciated

Rant initializing: As was mentioned above, try keeping the volume low on both snares and claps, for trance in general i'd say. Especially if there's a rolling bassline. Loud claps/snares disrupts some of the flow and is more suited for house music and such. Like turn it down to nothing and go up from there until it works. Not sure how great the RV7000 is these days, unless i've missed something it was designed for single core 700MHz processors or something not very far from that. Try the Valhalla reverbs.

Trance is such a wide concept, some of your examples were arguably different sub genres of trance. Here's two examples where the clap is barely audible.



Here's an older track with a louder clap but it still has very little sonic impact.


And here's a hard trance track with a rolling bassline just to confuse things and because it's good

[machine_spirit]

And here's two examples of house just to show distinctly how big the difference is -