My daw is Mixcraft, and from what I've come to understand about the "issue" I'm experiencing, it isn't specific daw related.
I'm sure all of you have noticed this, and probably all of you understand why it happens. I do not and I'm looking for insight and tips.
So pretty much everything I do involves piano. I use the sustain pedal on every song. My issue is whenever I cut up clips, move them, the sustain, where I pushed down the pedal during recording, does not move with the clips.
Why, how, is it possible to get the pedal sustain to move with clips? Even when I start a recording, I obviously don't start playing immediately, so when I finish the recording there is a gap between the very start of the song and when I started playing.
For clarity while working, I like to move the first note to the very beginning of the sequencer. It makes working in the project grids easier as the song, first note, actually starts at 1. But in moving this already the whole project's sustain is messed up, the sustain comes in and not in the places I originally recorded and pressed the pedal down.
Just why? How is it possible to be able to cut up and move clips around but not lose my original pedal pushes and their exact placements I did them.
My biggest issue right now
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
Both. It seems to happen both when I move the clip and also when I move notes around inside the clip. Naturally I'll move or cut notes in the piano roll to get the tempo and everything else right. But whatever tweaks I make in the original places where I held sustain do not follow the notes I move.
I do kind of understand why it happens, it's not like the sustain is set for a certain note. The sustain happened at a certain time in the clip, and it records the sustain there, but not linked to any particular note. So basically, I'm trying to record the best takes I can get so that I don't need to make heavy edits in the piano roll.
Still, it really sucks because I like to edit heavy in piano roll and it's limiting because that natural sustain I once had is all f**ked. The only option then is to manually extend each note so they hold/sustain as long as their note is extended. I can never manipulate it perfect enough though to get that natural sustain feel. I find myself adding more reverb or effects just to hide sustain inconsistencies.
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240 - KVRAF
- 35161 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
Well I'm not entirely sure. Mixcraft is the only daw I've used. Simply, when I move notes around and edit in the piano roll, the sustain does not follow, it remains synced to wherever the pedal was pressed in the clip. Does that happen in other daws?
I'm using midi vsts. I mean I could mix the midi clips down to audio in the sequencer, but then I wouldn't be able to edit the notes in the piano roll.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:33 pm You could record the audio and cut that up instead ...
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
Like say I record a midi clip and in editing in the piano roll I select all the notes in the clip and drag them a few measures back so they start at the beginning of the clip or at a place where I want the notes to start. The sustain does not move with this, so the sustain will always come in at the same place I originally recorded the clip, a measure or two late.
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- KVRAF
- 7865 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
Sounds like a DAW thing to me. Cubase moves around automation on plugin parts when you move them, same with midi controllers on midi parts. Sorry, I never used Mixcraft so I don't know how it works, but it seems likely it should be able to record something simple like sustain pedals into a midi part. A sus pedal is no different than recording pitchbend or mod wheel into a midi part, and Cubase is very similar to a lot of other DAWs that do the same thing. It might be there's some obscure setting in Mixcraft that is blocking you recording midi controllers into your midi parts. Likely there are setting somewhere in global, preferences or midi or whatever Mixcraft calls them. It seems unlikely any halfway decent DAW can't record midi controllers into a part.
As to moving the notes within a part - you likely have to highlight midi controllers with the notes when you move them. Dunno how Mixcraft does that.
If it really can't do that, then a list editor is another way of moving controllers with notes. Does Mixcraft have a list editor?
As to moving the notes within a part - you likely have to highlight midi controllers with the notes when you move them. Dunno how Mixcraft does that.
If it really can't do that, then a list editor is another way of moving controllers with notes. Does Mixcraft have a list editor?
Last edited by kritikon on Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 7865 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
I had a quick look at the manual and at first glance it looks to be a fully featured DAW so I'd expect it to move midi controllers with parts. I don't have time to read a whole manual for a DAW I ain't gonna use but I noticed Clips and Piano Roll editors were separate. Cubase doesn't have "clips" so I'm not familiar with them but I've heard of them. Are you using clips or midi parts? They might be different things in Mixcraft. A midi part can be edited by piano roll, list, step or drum editor etc. Whichever you use, midi controllers are edited in there too. Possibly a Clip is different to a Midi part? I'm clutching at straws here, but it really should move midi controllers with a part (note I call them parts, not clips - some DAWs apparently use clips as a different thing entirely).
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- KVRist
- 412 posts since 19 Feb, 2022
Like others have said, I don’t wanna spend hours reading a manual for a DAW I don’t use, that’s your job lol, but knowing what keywords to search for in the manual, it sounds like the sustain pedal information is being recorded as track automation, which does not follow the MIDI clips, and not as clip automation, which does follow the MIDI clips.
Read the user manual starting from page 210.
Yes, Logic Pro works exactly like this. Logic Pro has a preference setting to be asked every time or not if you want to move any track automation when moving a clip, or if you want to move the clip and leave the track automation where it is.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
Interesting...okay I haven't seen that option in Mixcraft. Thank you I will ask about that feature on their forums. I did ask around there and wasn't really getting a final answer, that's why I'm asking here.i need Help wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:21 am Yes, Logic Pro works exactly like this. Logic Pro has a preference setting to be asked every time or not if you want to move any track automation when moving a clip, or if you want to move the clip and leave the track automation where it is.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. When I say clips I mean yeah the midi parts that are recorded. Here are some examples of what I mean...how portions moved around will not carry sustain.kritikon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:28 pm I had a quick look at the manual and at first glance it looks to be a fully featured DAW so I'd expect it to move midi controllers with parts. I don't have time to read a whole manual for a DAW I ain't gonna use but I noticed Clips and Piano Roll editors were separate. Cubase doesn't have "clips" so I'm not familiar with them but I've heard of them. Are you using clips or midi parts? They might be different things in Mixcraft. A midi part can be edited by piano roll, list, step or drum editor etc. Whichever you use, midi controllers are edited in there too. Possibly a Clip is different to a Midi part? I'm clutching at straws here, but it really should move midi controllers with a part (note I call them parts, not clips - some DAWs apparently use clips as a different thing entirely).
So like right here, what I select in the first pic I'm moving a few measures over (2nd pic). When I make that move, the sustain does not move with it, it remains exactly where the notes were originally in the first pic.
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In another example here, I simply want to copy/paste this section of the song. I do so and the pasted section (highlighted) in the second picture, does not carry over the sustain to that "clip".
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Honestly, I'd consider switching or at least trying a new daw if there was one particularly which allowed me more freedom with sustains.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
I'm there now reading. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm not seeing anything specifically about sustains and automation. What I'm seeing on automation is the actual editing of the automation lines on the clip itself, which is done in the sequencer, not the piano roll. Those automation lines are for volume levels/pitch and other options. If I make a new automation track, maybe that is possibly what logic is asking about when moving clips, because those automation lanes do not move with the clips in Mixcraft. I always just edit the automation lines on the clip itself though, unless I'm doing a general fade in or fade out for the entire song, then either in the master or separate automation track will I edit automation so it affects the whole or multiple tracks, not just one track with a single clip where automation is edited on the clip itself.
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- KVRAF
- 15256 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
It's probably something simple. You can see the notes, but not exactly where the pedal gets pressed. Perhaps you had put your foot down already seconds before. So while selecting a bunch of notes, the pedal message is not included because that event was before your selection.
I think MixCraft is a DAW that started it's life as an audio editor.
Perhaps you're better off with a DAW that started it's life as a MIDI editor (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) These might be aware of the fact that a section where the sustain pedal was already pressed down seconds or minutes before should start with that pedal down as well.
I think MixCraft is a DAW that started it's life as an audio editor.
Perhaps you're better off with a DAW that started it's life as a MIDI editor (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) These might be aware of the fact that a section where the sustain pedal was already pressed down seconds or minutes before should start with that pedal down as well.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 18 posts since 18 Sep, 2022
This makes sense. Mixcraft is all I've ever used, I'm hesitant to try anything else, but also I am curious. I love the daw though, honestly my only issue is the sustain.BertKoor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:33 am It's probably something simple. You can see the notes, but not exactly where the pedal gets pressed. Perhaps you had put your foot down already seconds before. So while selecting a bunch of notes, the pedal message is not included because that event was before your selection.
I think MixCraft is a DAW that started it's life as an audio editor.
Perhaps you're better off with a DAW that started it's life as a MIDI editor (Cubase, Cakewalk, etc.) These might be aware of the fact that a section where the sustain pedal was already pressed down seconds or minutes before should start with that pedal down as well.
But you're right, like if I cut a section where the sustain was pressed down, then the sustain will totally disappear.
What would really be great is if there was an option to insert sustain/end sustain inside the piano roll. Then I could remake the sustain exactly where I want it, even after heavily editing notes and rewriting sections in the piano roll.
