Decapitator: Is it really the bees knees?

[ampetrosillo]

Decapitator imparts a very strong and specific character (for each of the models, at least) to the sound. It sounds good but the risk is that everything sounds a bit "samey". I find that Airwindows' BussColors4 is as good for giving some subtle character, and for heavier saturation, there are lots of options.

[Michey]

Lol, you need to understand analog gain staging to properly use Acustica plugins, specifically because because Volterra kernels sample non-linear distortion. You cannot compare their gain staging to normal, algorithmic plugins.

You're right !

So, I has to figure this thing out.

I disassembled one of AA most revered plugs (won't tell which, tho). I looked at the code, and found the code that has the header "Complex gain staging". I hand wrote the code, took a picture and it goes like this :



As I don't understand math equations, I asked a math professor to translate it to me. he looked at the code and muttered : "mmm... it looks like... mmm... oh <scratch his head>... it looks like something that should read in plain English 'insert a gain plugin and twist the knob to something between -18dBFS and -20dBFS of level BEFORE you go into this plugin and process' ". then he added : "you see the third raw at the lower right ? it reads 'if that still doesn't sound right, further lower the gain to -22dBFS or even -24dBFS' "

So there you have it... the definitive explanation the complex gain staging !

[Leo1999]

It was not necessary to add a description to the pretty simple formula.
I knew it before, though and that was not my point.
Neither AA compressors, nor pre-amps are satisfactory to me and
there is no saturation, not what I expect a saturation to be like.
And there has been said quite a lot in threads on this topic,
repetitions are boring.
But there are so many plugins from different devs,
so there is also a life without AA ;p

[_leras]

Eventide have a few drum related tips and presets currently.

https://www.soundtoys.com/aaron-rubin-d ... 2312c167f1

[Mind Riot]

So I downloaded Soundtoys' 1.13 gb installer that you have to download to try out even a single one of their plugins and installed things, then tried out Decapitator.

I guess I'm just not a saturation connoisseur, but I didn't hear anything that sounded appreciably better, or even noticeably different in the context of a mix, than SDRR2 or other tools.

No $50 from me today.

[sambaji]

Unless Decapitator has introduced anti-aliasing (it's 2022), I wouldn't purchase it. Aliasing may not be detectable for low-end signals (e.g., bass guitar). However, if you run a sine wave sweep through an aliasing plugin (e.g., one that lacks sufficient oversampling), you can often hear the aliasing once the frequency extends past the Nyquist limit (half the sampling rate). It's ironic that so many "analog" plugins add digital aliasing. Thoroughly test any "analog" plugin, for example with Plugin Doctor and a sine wave, before purchasing it.

[_leras]

Unless Decapitator has introduced anti-aliasing (it's 2022), I wouldn't purchase it. Aliasing may not be detectable for low-end signals (e.g., bass guitar). However, if you run a sine wave sweep through an aliasing plugin (e.g., one that lacks sufficient oversampling), you can often hear the aliasing once the frequency extends past the Nyquist limit (half the sampling rate). It's ironic that so many "analog" plugins add digital aliasing. Thoroughly test any "analog" plugin, for example with Plugin Doctor and a sine wave, before purchasing it.

Yes. I totally agree with you and know EXACTLY what you mean.

My music is chocked full of sweepy sine wave type sounds. And you know what... Decapitator completely ruins the feel of my tracks if I apply even a little bit of it.

[jens]

Unless Decapitator has introduced anti-aliasing (it's 2022), I wouldn't purchase it. Aliasing may not be detectable for low-end signals (e.g., bass guitar). However, if you run a sine wave sweep through an aliasing plugin (e.g., one that lacks sufficient oversampling), you can often hear the aliasing once the frequency extends past the Nyquist limit (half the sampling rate). It's ironic that so many "analog" plugins add digital aliasing.

No, it isn't - au contraire the opposite is ironic. That irritating snake-oil"-dude made a video about Decapitator and its aliasing - and he ran a highly artifical - and highly artifically sounding (and toothache-inducing)- synthetic signal through Decapitator in order to prove how its aliasing is a big problem and - IRONY ALERT!!! - was complaining that the result didn't sound analog. Needlessly to say, he was entirely oblivious to this irony.

However if you put signals like analog synthesizers, guitars, bass-guitars, pianos, e-ectric pianos, organs, vocals, drums, percussion, brass- and reed-instruments, violins, celli, double-basses,mandolins, dulcimers, ukuleles and what not through it you most likely won't ever run into this problem.

So ironically it's those who do not run analog signals through Decapitator who complain about its aliasing while those of us who run analog (or halfway analog sounding) signals through it have no such problems.


https://www.zytrax.com/tech/audio/audio.html

Thoroughly test any "analog" plugin, for example with Plugin Doctor and a sine wave, before purchasing it.

hm... let me think about this for a moment...

uhm...

nope - computer says no.

[_leras]

However if you put signals like analog synthesizers, guitars, bass-guitars, pianos, e-ectric pianos, organs, vocals, drums, percussion, brass- and reed-instruments, violins, celli, double-basses,mandolins, dulcimers, ukuleles and what not through it you most likely won't ever run into this problem.

So ironically it's those who do not run analog signals through Decapitator who complain about its aliasing while those of us who run analog (or halfway analog sounding) signals through it have no such problems.

Are you really sure about all that, Jens?

I've used it for years looking for a slightly warmer and softly saturated or degraded sound to make things sound more pleasant or organic, or even phatter if used in parallel...

...but all I get is this terrible harsh aliasing sound that just ruins Everything. Everything, I tell you. Everything.

[jens]

But you still love it, don't you!?

[_leras]

But you still love it, don't you!?

Yeah...

[jens]

So do I, dreadful aliasing aside.

And now please excuse me while I search my sinesweep-generator (it's super-useful for composing - goes up to 30khz - I used it just yesterday for a couple of hours but now I have no idea what box I put it in afterwards)...

[sambaji]

Unless Decapitator has introduced anti-aliasing (it's 2022), I wouldn't purchase it. Aliasing may not be detectable for low-end signals (e.g., bass guitar). However, if you run a sine wave sweep through an aliasing plugin (e.g., one that lacks sufficient oversampling), you can often hear the aliasing once the frequency extends past the Nyquist limit (half the sampling rate). It's ironic that so many "analog" plugins add digital aliasing.

No, it isn't - au contraire the opposite is ironic. That irritating snake-oil"-dude made a video about Decapitator and its aliasing - and he ran a highly artifical - and highly artifically sounding (and toothache-inducing)- synthetic signal through Decapitator in order to prove how its aliasing is a big problem and - IRONY ALERT!!! - was complaining that the result didn't sound analog. Needlessly to say, he was entirely oblivious to this irony.

However if you put signals like analog synthesizers, guitars, bass-guitars, pianos, e-ectric pianos, organs, vocals, drums, percussion, brass- and reed-instruments, violins, celli, double-basses,mandolins, dulcimers, ukuleles and what not through it you most likely won't ever run into this problem.

So ironically it's those who do not run analog signals through Decapitator who complain about its aliasing while those of us who run analog (or halfway analog sounding) signals through it have no such problems.


https://www.zytrax.com/tech/audio/audio.html

Thoroughly test any "analog" plugin, for example with Plugin Doctor and a sine wave, before purchasing it.

hm... let me think about this for a moment...

uhm...

nope - computer says no.

Layering up aliasing plugins just compounds the issue (individual tracks, group bus, mix/master bus, etc). If a plugin can't pass a simple sign wave test at a reasonable level (-18 db) without introducing very audible artifacts, why would I use it when there are plenty of other good saturation plugins out there that don't?

The purpose of using Plugin Doctor is to learn what the plugin does (e.g., eq curve, saturation/harmonic profile, dynamic response) and to compare its behavior with other plugins. I will occasionally use an aliasing plugin such as the exciter Fresh Air, but for a general-purpose saturator (layering on multiple tracks) I would use one that offers anti-aliasing (e.g., FabFilter Saturn, True Iron, the free Gsat+ and ChowTape, Klanghelm SDRR, etc)

[jens]

You either completely failed to comprehend my point or chose to ignore it on purpose. Nothing of what you just said is relevant to the point I made and which you quoted and seemingly replied to.

You wrote:

you can often hear the aliasing once the frequency extends past the Nyquist limit

And my point is that barely NO analog audio signal, no real physical instrument will ever contain frequencies that high at any relevant level.

If you look at the charts I linked to above, from all the instruments they list only the 6th harmonic of a hi-hat might exceed Nyquist @44100. But then again have fun getting much of these recorded in the first place, given that even condensers tend to crap out at around 20k. Plus even with that natural limit hi-hats still tend to be ear-pinching and annoying in a mix and often require high-pass filtering and/or de-essing to be endurable. 22k - that's really super super high and then some...
and if you work on acoustic-music you really ought know that, me thinks.

[sambaji]

I meant to say approaching Nyquist limit. I hear and see aliasing with a 4.2khz fundamental sine wave through a saturator at -30db when oversampling is disabled. When oversampling is off the tone has a slightly darker sound due to refracted aliasing frequencies produced lower than the 4.2khz fundamental. Perhaps, as you pointed out most instruments wouldn't be producing harmonics at a high enough volume in that range to make aliasing noticeable. I just prefer not to take a chance when I can so clearly hear it with my tests, particularly when there are other options.