Controlling hardware remotely?

[HREQ]

Ok, this hadn't ocurred to me before, I thought you had to have like rack units right next to you to switch programs/patches. But I seen this guys rackmount in a position he'd have to walk all the way around to get to it. It had Motif / Triton / Some FX units

my question is, is it possible to remotely switch all the patches on these units / FX units inside DAW or with some type of midi controls? That would make it so much easier than I thought it would be to work with hardware lol

[BertKoor]

Old-fashioned MIDI over 5-pole DIN cables ftw!

If something can send program change messages and it arrives at the hardware, it obviously does the job. Any controller, sequencer or DAW can do that. Program change messages have been part of the MIDI specs since v1.0 was published, what, 40 years ago.

Or maybe there's an implied part of the question I did not quite understand correctly?

[kritikon]

Wot Bert said.

I used to program change FX units remotely way back in the day even from Cubase 1.0 before DAWs existed. And quite a few FX units can have their parameters controlled via midi too, some can't. But I've never come across any FX units that don't at least respond to midi program changes. Do any midi synths exist that don't have program change?

Only word of advice is to make sure you have your midi channels set up properly. In the past I've managed to send wrong program changes to wrong units, and TBH it's a bit irritating when all of your FX change to the wrong ones.Suddenly switching from small room to Taj Mahal when you're going from break down to drop just doesn't sound right...

[cryophonik]

There are also a lot of synth developers and third party developers who are now making editors/librarians for hardware synths that work as VST/AU plugins in your DAW. They simplify this by having all the parameters pre-routed and instant/direct access to your patch libraries, often with total recall.

[HREQ]

Wait, but how would I actually set this up if I have multiple synths?

disclaimer: I'm new to hardware but I'm planning on getting a few just researching everything right now

Say I have a rack with some units

1: E-MU Proteus VX2000 (rompler)
2: XV5080 (rompler)
4: Alesis QSR (rompler)
3: Yamaha SPX1000 (FX UNIT)
5: BOSS SE-50 (FX UNIT)

They all have "midi in" and "midi out" ports

My interface only has one midi in and midi out...
How'd I set my interface up to "receive" and "send" the messages to all of them, so I could use all the editors/interfaces at the same time?

Also, on the audio side
I'd need 2 inputs for each rompler feeding into interface,
and for the FX units
they need my audio interface to line out to their inputs, then line out from the fx unit to the line ins of my interface?

Then I could basically have like inside the daw, some type of VST or control software for each rompler, maybe even for the FX units too?

and dedicated midi playing / audio recording channels for the romplers

and for the FX units... I could feed audio to them from DAW using the sellected "outputs" from interface, and they'd come back on an "input" I'd record back into daw?


My daw is Cubase 12, just trying to wrap my haed around this whole process and setup lol

[BertKoor]

Midi devices are usually set to listen to an assigned channel (unless set to "omni" mode) of which there are 16 on each port: 3x as much as you have.

Midi devices can be daisy-chained. One's output goes to the input of the next, who'se output is plugged to input of the next, etc.

Traditionally there were Out & Thru ports. Difference being that Thru is a mirror of Input and thus does not contain messages created by the device itself. Now most Out ports function as Thru as well. For a device sitting in a rack, it suffices.

Also, on the audio side
I'd need 2 inputs for each rompler feeding into interface,
and for the FX units
they need my audio interface to line out to their inputs, then line out from the fx unit to the line ins of my interface?

At first glance that seems correct.

You might find a mixer with more than 1 bus and/or a patchbay useful as well.

[pdxindy]

My daw is Cubase 12, just trying to wrap my haed around this whole process and setup lol

Welcome to the complicated world of hardware

[Uncle E]

Since those sound modules are multitimbral, it'd be a good idea to get a MOTU MIDI Express rather than daisy chaining. You can find used ones for cheap and MOTU still supports them.

For the same reason, you might want to use more than 2 outputs of each sound module. I personally think the XV5080's digital output sounds better than its analog outputs.

[HREQ]

Thanks is there any downside to daisy chaining rather then using something like MOTU MIDI EXPRESS?

You mentioned multitimbral. Does daisy chaining only allow one midi channel to be played per synth? Which MOTU would allow you play 16 channels per synth?

I just watched this video which helped illustrate everything lol

[sjm]

One thing to bear in mind is that if you already have some controllers/hardware synths, they will typically have MIDI out/thru ports on them. So if you already have something hooked up via USB, you might be able to use those as an interface.

There are essentially 16 MIDI channels per port, so if you have one piece of gear that you want the option to use all 16 channels with (multitimbral instrument), it probably makes sense to get an interface with multiple outs. Those things are cheap as chips though; I picked up a 4 in/out MIDI interface for chump change (EUR 12?) second hand recently. Another potential problem is latency, though I've never daisy-chained myself, so can't speak to how much of an issue that is in practice. But it sure makes things a lot easier to organise mentally if you have separate outs for different pieces of gear.

One thing you may want to look at if you want to control outboard geat from your DAW is Ctrlr. There are quite a few templates available for download for different pieces of gear, and it'll give you instant recall in your projects and a nice interface for controlling hardware. You can also create your own panels if you can't find one available for download. I've used it to control both hardware synths and rack FX units. Just make sure that you read up on how to set up the MIDI ins and outs properly - you need to make sure that the MIDI ports are not in use by any other software (including your DAW), as Ctrl interfaces with the MIDI device directly and MIDI devices can only be in used by one thing at a time (at least on Windows).

[vurt]

wow, serious on the midi 4/4 price?
i want a new one as my old one doesn't seem to want to work.
i only want it because i now have the 3 crea8audio synths with midi outs and visual synth can respond to midi...
so as it's not really getting in the way of anything but adding functions to control visuals, id not even looked.
but if theyre that cheap i can think about one of those even in the current economic shit storm.

[sjm]

wow, serious on the midi 4/4 price?

Yeah, I just kept an eye on ebay and bid on things that are sold locally. These things have very limited resale value, so as long as you aren't paying P&P, there are true bargains to be found. Obviously only works for those of us who live near big population centres.

Just be a little patient, because you aren't looking for the latest and greatest, just a solid workhorse. The cheapest 4x4 on Thomann right now costs EUR 63. If you work on the assumption that a similar piece of gear is maybe worth half that second hand after a few years, that's ~30. If P&P is 10-15, that sets a realistic limit of somewhere up to ~20 before most buyers will prefer something new with a guarantee and returns policy.

You'll obviously be expected to go and pick it up in person.

[vurt]

thanks, will have to have a look around and get that sorted i guess

[sjm]

thanks, will have to have a look around and get that sorted i guess

It turns out I lied to you. Just logged into ebay, and turns out the 4x4 cost me EUR 8.26. So an even better deal

[vurt]

thanks, will have to have a look around and get that sorted i guess

It turns out I lied to you. Just logged into ebay, and turns out the 4x4 cost me EUR 8.26. So an even better deal

for some reason i was expecting 150 ish new, but i had a quick look and found one for 45 new
didn't buy one yet, will have a look secondhand first, but will now wait for new granddaughter to arrive first as i don't want to arrange a pick up then cancel if i have to rush to the hospital to greet her!!