Ableton Live vs Bitwig

[Double Tap]

Bitwig looks nice, lots to recommend it, lots of people DO recommend it including people whose judgement I respect. I've got an 8 track licence and toyed with it a bit. The way plugins have their modulation options automatically mapped to the DAW is a big draw on its own, and the spectral devices are very tempting.

But I've got too many interesting Max4Live devices and Live packs to want to switch yet, and when someone posts a tutorial with a project file, it's a Live project, so I'm fully hooked into the ecosystem. Maybe in a year or so I might feel differently.

[liquidsound]

I'm using both (almost sold BW but then CLAP....).
It's so personal though. All the so-called "better feature" amount to little compared to the workflow, hardware integration and which DAW ultimately allows you to write AND FINISH a track.
In this case, for me and the freaking majority, Ableton is the deal.

[pdxindy]

If one day Bitwig comes up with a controller like Live has with its Push, then They might get ahead...
In the meantime nothing comes close

Bitwig has that. It's called Ableton Push. Works amazingly well and very similar. No waveform display and fancy things like that, but it does the job (Moss script).

It's funny how subjective this stuff is. I was excited when I bought Push but as the months passed, I found I used it less and less. For lots of stuff I find the mouse and screen faster and the Push was in the way.

Push is too big. It takes up way too much prime space. It may make sense if one uses the pads as a primary controller, but it never was for me. I prefer a regular keyboard or the Linnstrument for playing so that is what I want in front of me. Once the Push got pushed to the side, its use dropped off completely and I packed it up and put it in the closet never to be used again.

I can understand that, it's similar for me. The push is cool, but Bitwig on a PC touch screen monitor on a moveable arm is really a nice workflow. So I do most of it that way, also with a linnstrument on the desktop in front of me (And Seaboard under the sit/stand desk). But I kept Push over to the side, mostly for macros and firing clips. It is a bit big though yeah.

I recently bought some Intech midi modules which snap together. Different modules have sliders, or knobs or buttons. They are 4 inch squares and can be aligned in a row so my idea is a 4" row of 4-6 modules which can then sit in front of my synth controller taking up very little space. Haven't even tried them yet cause been busy with music. But that is the idea to add some midi controls while not getting in the way.

[Echoes in the Attic]

If one day Bitwig comes up with a controller like Live has with its Push, then They might get ahead...
In the meantime nothing comes close

Bitwig has that. It's called Ableton Push. Works amazingly well and very similar. No waveform display and fancy things like that, but it does the job (Moss script).

It's funny how subjective this stuff is. I was excited when I bought Push but as the months passed, I found I used it less and less. For lots of stuff I find the mouse and screen faster and the Push was in the way.

Push is too big. It takes up way too much prime space. It may make sense if one uses the pads as a primary controller, but it never was for me. I prefer a regular keyboard or the Linnstrument for playing so that is what I want in front of me. Once the Push got pushed to the side, its use dropped off completely and I packed it up and put it in the closet never to be used again.

I can understand that, it's similar for me. The push is cool, but Bitwig on a PC touch screen monitor on a moveable arm is really a nice workflow. So I do most of it that way, also with a linnstrument on the desktop in front of me (And Seaboard under the sit/stand desk). But I kept Push over to the side, mostly for macros and firing clips. It is a bit big though yeah.

I recently bought some Intech midi modules which snap together. Different modules have sliders, or knobs or buttons. They are 4 inch squares and can be aligned in a row so my idea is a 4" row of 4-6 modules which can then sit in front of my synth controller taking up very little space. Haven't even tried them yet cause been busy with music. But that is the idea to add some midi controls while not getting in the way.

They look nice. Encoders don't seem to have any indication of present value though? Like rings around them or anything? That would be not ideal.

[pdxindy]

For me it's equally about other things like hybrid tracks and bouncing in place, the multi-out chains of a VST device (not needing extra tracks), and the remote control mappings and macros. It's so strange going to live and having to create a single device rack to get macros, whereas they are available right there on every device with bitwig, with device templates and preset templates.

Those are all reasons I am pleased using Bitwig... Hybrid Tracks and BIP is awesome! I hope Bitwig implements Hybrid Comping as well, then when you BIP, the original midi could be saved as a take!

But it is the MPE capability combined with the modulation system that is the showstopper for me. No other DAW comes close. And now there is also CLAP. There is no way I could give up unlimited per voice modulation for my favorite u-he synths! They got me with that one

[pdxindy]

They look nice. Encoders don't seem to have any indication of present value though? Like rings around them or anything? That would be not ideal.

Unfortunately no feedback like that... the encoders each have a single LED. The encoders don't feel amazing but okay. They click when pressed down so maybe can do stuff like coarse turn and click-turn fine.

[machinesworking]

I've used Live since V3, so I'm not "switching", seriously who converts that amount of data to another DAW because they started using a new DAW? obviously I'm much more used to Live.

To me Lives strength and weakness is the WYSIWYG aspect of almost every part of the interface. When you start off using Live it isn't hard to figure out at all, routing is obvious from the contextual menus in every in/out etc. The issue I've had with Live since day one though is that WYSIWYG approach does not conceal greater complexity. They remedied this with buying Cycling 74 and embedding Max/MSP directly into Live as Max4Live, but it's a little like going from play dough to Autocad, and so like most users you end up using other people's Max4Live patches, of which there are hundreds. Some of the paid ones are truly impressive, a granular sampler with an iPad touch interface etc. Live does Movie scoring, it's rudimentary compared to Cubase or DP etc. but it works, there's even video editing FX in Max4Live you can use. The UX is too dumbed down for me, you always have to grab the mouse to allign things to do simple tasks that in other DAWs are keystrokes.

Bitwig on the other hand, is less WYSIWYG, so the initial learning curve is a bit higher, but right away some things are pure genius. You interact with the interface all the time, all the main aspects of the interface are single key commands i is the Information panel, d is Device etc. etc. It's all super intuitive and smart. There are hundreds of possible key commands you can assign. Like pxindy mentioned MPE support is top notch, they are the first to support CLAP, and I would bet money they will support MIDI 2.0 before Live does. The modulation is a fast as it can get, it's miles above Lives. It's the most stable DAW out there, it isn't 100% bug free, no complex software is, but VST sandboxing prevents Bitwig from crashing, and that's a solid plus. Downsides for someone might be no AU, SysEx, movie support, and a good amount of the control surface support is the work of Moss. Bitwig started out IMO with pretty bad control surface support, asking us as end users to script them ourselves. This all changed with Moss's scripts though, I've even used his generic controller script to get support for devices with no support etc. Movie, AU and SysEx support is a bit of a PITA if you want those, but there are VST plug ins for all three tasks.

People have mentioned Push 2, I find it equally useful in both Live and Bitwig, with a slight nod to Live only because built in devices are pretty usefully controlled, but mostly with Push 2 I find it useful for the Session/Launcher and as a Mixer, and that isn't any different between the two.

Another thing, the Grid is Bitwigs answer to Max4Live, and it's more stable by nature being built specifically for Bitwig instead of being a 25 year old program bolted on. Naturally Max is far more advanced than the Grid, but that comes at a price, I do not hear people talking about the Grid crashing Bitwig, but I do hear about Max4Live crashing Live. That makes sense since they're refining and recoding 25 years worth of changes in nearly everything to fit modern OS's.

For my needs because I already have VST plug ins that can host AU's and a SysEx VST plug in for hardware patches Bitwig wins the battle, it feels faster to use, and MPE support is super solid.

[jonljacobi]

Love the way Bitwig looks, and started with it at 1.x. Seems excellent for sound design, etc. but that's not my thing. For players doing straight recording and editing, Live is far more efficient IMHO. I also prefer it over the Cubase's, S1's, Reapers of the world in that role, because it's cleaner, simpler, i.e., not designed primarily for engineers.

Pretty much for every thing that Bitwig does better than Live, there's something Live does better than Bitwig. You just have to see how your needs and habits align then use that one.

[chk071]

Love the way Bitwig looks, and started with it at 1.x. Seems excellent for sound design, etc. but that's not my thing. For players doing straight recording and editing, Live is far more efficient IMHO. I also prefer it over the Cubase's, S1's, Reapers of the world in that role, because it's cleaner, simpler, i.e., not designed primarily for engineers.

Pretty much for every thing that Bitwig does better than Live, there's something Live does better than Bitwig. You just have to see how your needs and habits align then use that one.

That's why I hate it when people argue like "DAW XY should have feature X that DAW YZ has". There always will be some overlap, but, software should have its own identity, otherwise you can just use any random DAW, and they all do the same.

Why do people use Bitwig? Because it does stuff differently. And that's good. At least for those who like what it does differently.

[jonljacobi]

Yeah, that does get old in a hurry. People switch DAWs, then they want the devs to add every feature that their old DAW had that the new one doesn't. And a lot of the time, there's actually a way to do what they want, they just want what they are used to.

[sQeetz]

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[apoclypse]

I prefer Bitwig. It just fits my brain better due to how close to other DAWs it is in basic design. The arranger is where I live most of the time and its so much better in Bitwig than Ableton imo. Overall I feel like devices in Ableton are better but the modulations in Bitwig are just so damn impressive. The browser imo is the best browser of any DAW I own. Fuzzy search, tagging, collections, smart collections etc. It's all there and very easy to use and navigate even if a little messy looking.

It is annoying however that they focus solely on gadgets and sound design toys than things like the Piano Roll, audio editing, or only seem to half implement features. That being said their philosophy in-terms if how devices should be designed, or should work is pretty interesting.

Ableton is great. Very no frill in-terms of design. Dead simple to use once you "get it".

[sQeetz]

I prefer Bitwig. It just fits my brain better due to how close to other DAWs it is in basic design. The arranger is where I live most of the time and its so much better in Bitwig than Ableton imo. Overall I feel like devices in Ableton are better but the modulations in Bitwig are just so damn impressive. The browser imo is the best browser of any DAW I own. Fuzzy search, tagging, collections, smart collections etc. It's all there and very easy to use and navigate even if a little messy looking.

It is annoying however that they focus solely on gadgets and sound design toys than things like the Piano Roll, audio editing, or only seem to half implement features. That being said their philosophy in-terms if how devices should be designed, or should work is pretty interesting.

Ableton is great. Very no frill in-terms of design. Dead simple to use once you "get it".

What I hate the most about Live is that you have to klick on a tiny knob to open a plugin. Why?

[machinesworking]

That's why I hate it when people argue like "DAW XY should have feature X that DAW YZ has". There always will be some overlap, but, software should have its own identity, otherwise you can just use any random DAW, and they all do the same.

Why do people use Bitwig? Because it does stuff differently. And that's good. At least for those who like what it does differently.

IMO there are at this point two categories of DAWs; the traditional engineering DAWs like Cubase, S1, DP, Logic, Reaper, Pro Tools etc. and the more sequencer sample workstation or “DAW as instrument” DAWs like Bitwig, Live, FL Studio, ReNoise and Reason to a degree.
I accepted this as the way it is right away and have oscillated between DP and Logic for engineer Swiss army knife needs and Reason, then Live and now Bitwig for the DAW as instrument needs.

The objective of a DAW like Cubase or DP etc. is to be a one stop shop but primarily if you already have a song worked out in your head etc, I find Bitwig and Live etc. to be more like a sampler workstation that you approach to create the idea in the first place with.

Anyway I’ve rarely wanted traditional DAW features in Bitwig because I don’t want it losing that immediacy. I get why people want to stay in one DAW etc. but if you need articulation mapping and score tablature why are you using Bitwig?

[chk071]

/Users/thomas/Desktop/IMG_0028.jpg

I'm not sure if it is allowed to share your private pictures here.