Cubase Sx vs Logic Audio???

[Sascha Franck]

I quite know about the different ways to setup the inspector. There's no channel strip displaying the audio channel settings for a VSTi, period.

I might need to take portions of this back - but how do you set it up then?

[cold c]

Most of these "issues" have been discussed before.

I quite know about the different ways to setup the inspector. There's no channel strip displaying the audio channel settings for a VSTi, period.

Are you still using SX2? SX3 now has the audio channel settings for the VSTi in the inspector.

Why should I be kidding?
In Logic, I have my arrange on one screen and a floating Matrix on the other. Brilliant. Again impossible in SX, no need to even discuss about it.

In the event of having two desktops with different resolutions, any window with always on top enabled can be dragged out of the main window on to a different desktop. If you have the same res on both monitors, the window can be maximised to both screens.

Just try to automate an FX send and copy that data around - it's possible but it's a royal PITA

Works fine here, use the range selection tool.

Screen layout and general UI issues. SX is the master of wasting screen estate,

Yes, it is.

Quantizing. SX just sucks at that.

Discussed this in a previous topic, please go back and read it again...

Tool handling in general. In Logic, I never switch tools in my arrange. I have the plain pointer on my left button, scissor on the right. Just enough for everything I do.

Learn to use the alt key, assign it to one of your spare mouse buttons if possible.

Extracting drum tracks to MIDI. Just came to my mind. I use that VERY often in Logic to have, say, a kick trigger some sampler track. No way to do that in SX, apart from using 3rd party plugins, which is WAY more timeconsuming (and not working even halfway as good either).

And extracting audio->midi...can't for the life of me think why Steinberg lost that facility (unless I've overlooked it in the manual...which is possible).

Please check the manual. Detect hitpoints (or insert them manually because the detection is not good) then use the hitpoint tool with the alt key, then create groove quantize from hitpoints, then make sure you save the groove quantize because it can be overwritten (and they claim that is not a bug). Then enable this groove quantize in the key editor and all then add MIDI notes as desired.

As far as plugin compatibility goes: Yes, there's some plugins not working at all, then there's MIDI driven audio plugins which are only half-implemented (you need to instanciate them as instruments, if possible, then feed the source into them as a sidechain)

Which specific audio plugins with MIDI input aren't working?

but how do you set it up then?

When you route a MIDI track to a VSTi you automatically get an extra section in the inspector. Use CTRL and leftclick to open that section and another section of the inspector simultaneously.

[Sascha Franck]

Are you still using SX2? SX3 now has the audio channel settings for the VSTi in the inspector.

SX 3 and I know (now, see below) - quite a spacewaste though.
Apart from that, let's have a look at the new "E" button down on the right.
It'll take you to the selected VSTi track's audio channel settings. Fine.
Now, click on another track and go back there - you'll be seeing the MIDI channel settings again, instead of the audio channel settings, which is why I clicked the new "E" rather than anything else. Pretty lame and absolutely unlogical and inconsistent. This new "E" button should ALLWAYS bring up the audio channel settings, no matter how often I switch between tracks.

In the event of having two desktops with different resolutions, any window with always on top enabled can be dragged out of the main window on to a different desktop.

I know. But Cubase's editors don't offer any allways on top settings.

If you have the same res on both monitors, the window can be maximised to both screens.

Which will raise the amount of screen estate used up.
Allways on top windows have smaller title bars, a "normalized" project window will result in an extra title bar as well and so on.
Let alone the fact that the "main window resizing" approach will indeed only work fine assuming you got two identical monitors. Fine for my main setup, lame with my laptop plus extra monitor setup. Not an issue at all with Logic as you can open ANY window as allways on top.
Apart from that, in Logic I can decide on a per editor (or window) base whether I'd like to have them linked or not.

Just try to automate an FX send and copy that data around - it's possible but it's a royal PITA

Works fine here, use the range selection tool.

Well, some things to consider:
- This requires to select a range.
- This still won't allow to tweak automation data in a way MIDI parts can be tweaked.
Here's two screenshots:


This is a delay send automation (for the record, I can switch of "node view", so I won't accidentally alter any nodes.
What you may allready notice is that it looks like a "part" rather than a bunch of events. And as such it can be treated. I only need to grab that part to copy and move it around. No need to select any ranges.

Here's another screenshot:


Now the delay send part is copied. OK, no biggie, even with SX's automation. But, as you may see, it's timestretched. Try that with SX's automation. In Logic, I just grab the right corner, hold down CTRL and shorten the part = timestretching.
KICKASS for creative use of automation, completely impossible in SX - unless you know of an easy way to route MIDI CC information (which could be treated like MIDI parts if recorded or drawn in) to control a channel's FX sends. I couldn't find any way to do so.

Quantizing. SX just sucks at that.

Discussed this in a previous topic, please go back and read it again...

No need to do so. The lack of any visual info about quantize values is a huge drawback in SX. Yes, you can use a quantizer plugin, but that's quite another story as it affects the complete track rather than an individual part (which is what I'm usually using quantization for).

Please check the manual. Detect hitpoints (or insert them manually because the detection is not good) then use the hitpoint tool with the alt key, then create groove quantize from hitpoints, then make sure you save the groove quantize because it can be overwritten (and they claim that is not a bug). Then enable this groove quantize in the key editor and all then add MIDI notes as desired.

You seem to misunderstand this one. What I want is to create MIDI notes out of hitpoints. I don't want to apply a quantize template out of them. As far as I'm informed, in earlier version of Cubase (must've been in 5.x) you could extract MIDI notes out of groove/quantization templates. I fail to find any method to do that with SX.
Why do I want this? To extract a MIDI track of, say, a kickdrum track to trigger some samples with it.
I do that on almost any drumtakes in Logic, the snare and kick tracks allways get extracted as MIDI tracks so I can use additional samples to have more variety of sound choices.

I'd be very happy if you'd know about a way to do this in SX (something that doesn't require using something like DrumTrigger and rerecord everything all the way through the tune, without even being that exact either).

Which specific audio plugins with MIDI input aren't working?

My comment was targeted towards Logic's incopatibility. I don't remember the exact ones, but there's a few that either won't show up as instruments, or, in case they are, don't show a sidechain to be fed with.

but how do you set it up then?

When you route a MIDI track to a VSTi you automatically get an extra section in the inspector. Use CTRL and leftclick to open that section and another section of the inspector simultaneously.

Thanks, just found out about that. Pretty much a spacewasting thing though. Even without the volume slider shown, the FX sends and inserts take up more space than my channel strip in Logic.

[DevonB]

- No velocity tool in Key Edit (Logic's Matrix). What a shame! Has got to be my most used tool ever.

What is it in Cubase SX velocity change in the piano roll that Logic did better? I actually like SX better for that than Logic.

Devon

[Sascha Franck]

What is it in Cubase SX velocity change in the piano roll that Logic did better? I actually like SX better for that than Logic.

Just easy: No need to adress any info line or whatever.
You just use the velocity tool and drag up and down.
Works on multiple selected notes as well and will change all of them simultaneously while keeping their relations intact.
So, say, I go through my recorded notes, all I need to do whenever I find some note being to loud or too low is to drag up/down. As said, the main point being that I don't need to care about any info line or velocity ramps or whatever.

[ahja]

You'll never be happy with anything Sascha.. Someone points out you were incorrect and you come back with another negetive comment. No need to waste my breathe argueing back. I will note that these things you note are possible, they either don't work exactly the same as Logic ( probably for a reason), or they are called different things.

Long live SX3.

[Sascha Franck]

You'll never be happy with anything Sascha.. Someone points out you were incorrect and you come back with another negetive comment.

Example?
The only thing I wasn't 100% correct about has been the channel strip - and i admitted I wasn't.
ANY other of my points are 100% correct!

No need to waste my breathe argueing back. I will note that these things you note are possible, they either don't work exactly the same as Logic ( probably for a reason), or they are called different things.

OK, open an editor as a float.
Extract MIDI notes from audio tracks.
Make the audio channel settings (the extra window that is) follow my projects selection.
Show me a way to alter velocities with a tool (or a modifier) relatively.
HOW are these called different things if they just don't exist?

Long live SX3.

Oh yes, a truly brilliant remark.

[ahja]

Cheer up Sascha. No need to be such a rough edge all the time.

[DevonB]

What is it in Cubase SX velocity change in the piano roll that Logic did better? I actually like SX better for that than Logic.

Just easy: No need to adress any info line or whatever.
You just use the velocity tool and drag up and down.
Works on multiple selected notes as well and will change all of them simultaneously while keeping their relations intact.
So, say, I go through my recorded notes, all I need to do whenever I find some note being to loud or too low is to drag up/down. As said, the main point being that I don't need to care about any info line or velocity ramps or whatever.

Huh? I just grab the velocity bar and drag it up or down in SX as well, or I can draw in a ramp, or a parabala, or whatever I like. I do it all the time if I hit a note too lightly, and I like the fact that it color codes it, whereas Logic was just that ugly yellow and black.

There's nothing difficult about SX's way of handling it, and I'm still not seeing what you're saying is so 'different' about it? I actually found it easier, as I didn't like the 'grid' all that much in Logic for velocity either.

Devon

[Sascha Franck]

Cheer up Sascha. No need to be such a rough edge all the time.

I'm completely relaxed here.
It wasn't me to get excited at all. I was only pointing out some (proveable) SX shortcomings, simply because the original poster asled for it. It happened to be that I was slightly wrong in one of my original remarks, yet, in all the other points I was completely correct, just to see you accusing me in a "you were incorrect and you come back with another negetive comment" way. Which simply isn't true. The only "other negative" comment added has been about the audio channel settings, closely related to the channel strip thing.

You know, I don't want SX to be the new Logic - there's quite some great things in SX. But still, no matter how you put it, there's some highly inefficient and illogical things happening though, such as the non-existing option to have editors as floats, or the audio channel setting thing.
SX could be a WAY better program if Steinberg would finally re-organize what was possible allready (such as the audio to MIDI track thing), would track down bugs (I can't for the life of me figure out how a buggy things such as the info line in your prohect window could make it into a release version... just enter any value manually there, such as a part's length and you'll know what I mean) and show a bit of a clue when it came to ergonomical things (such as a resizeable mixer, freely linkable editors, alternate tools that could be brought up by a modifier key temporarily, etc etc etc).

[Sascha Franck]

Huh? I just grab the velocity bar and drag it up or down in SX as well, or I can draw in a ramp, or a parabala, or whatever I like. I do it all the time if I hit a note too lightly, and I like the fact that it color codes it, whereas Logic was just that ugly yellow and black.

1) Logic has colors for velocities. Since quite a while even.
2) When you select a bunch of notes in SX, say, a chord, and change velocities in the velocity bar they will NOT keep their relations to each other but change to the same velocity for each note, which is just uberlame. I want my velocity relations to stay the same.
3) I need to go down to the velocity lane with my mouse. No need to do that either in Logic (yes, a minor hassle, but it adds up).

There's nothing difficult about SX's way of handling it, and I'm still not seeing what you're saying is so 'different' about it?

I never said anything was "difficult" but it's VERY much different, just see above.

I actually found it easier, as I didn't like the 'grid' all that much in Logic for velocity either.

Which grid are you talking about?

[stag]

sasha you are the most incredible waste of time i have came across on the net.
learning to think was something you could invest your time ,before misinform people.
Cubase is a concept you fail to understand.
like many people you like to think and talk about what you don´t know.
Logic no matter what plugs they cram on it is a unfinished work ,Cubase is a work in progress.

[Sascha Franck]

sasha you are the most incredible waste of time i have came across on the net.

Thanks.

learning to think was something you could invest your time ,before misinform people.

Where's the misinformation, please?
Facts instead of rather rude insultments!

Cubase is a concept you fail to understand.

In which way?
FWIW I started using Cubase at V1/Atari and used it all the way until 3.65/PC.
What do you think is it I fail to understand?
Facts again please, no dumb accusing!

like many people you like to think and talk about what you don´t know.

I'm sorry to say so, that's just the most clueless remark I've seen in a while.

Logic no matter what plugs they cram on it is a unfinished work ,Cubase is a work in progress.

And just another clueless remark.
For what it's worth, Logic has been able to automate all sorts of VST plugins when VST only supported those with CC implemetation.

I'd suggest you to either get some facts straight or just refrain to post any further absolutely clueless comments.

Thanks.

[meister eder]

sasha you are the most incredible waste of time i have came across on the net.
learning to think was something you could invest your time ,before misinform people.
Cubase is a concept you fail to understand.
like many people you like to think and talk about what you don´t know.
Logic no matter what plugs they cram on it is a unfinished work ,Cubase is a work in progress.

What a stupid comment!

[mojkarma]

In some aspects Sascha's criticizm on Cubase has a point, but I absolutely don't understand why every Logic user glorifies the velocity tool. I know how logic works with midi but I prefer any time the way Cubase does it. You can draw velocity, or you select a note and drag with the mouse up or down the value in the infoline. Is it so hard the get using it?

Another point and I know that some die hard logic user will disagree with me: the way how logic shows you your midirecordings in the arrange view is the worst I can imagine. Any other sequencer shows you lines instead of notes what I think is a lot better because you can see the length of your midi notes. I think that cubase even gives you the option to show note symbols or lines but not logic.

There is also nothing wrong with the fact how cubase handels midi and associated vst instruments. Just split your workflow into logical parts. When I do midi, I do midi. When I mix then I mix. I open the mixer and do the work on the respectiv audio channel of the vst.

Often people think that something is "wrong" with a program because they prefer how another sequencer does the work. For example, the way how logic works with folder thracks is IMO far more complicated then in cubase, especially the process to take some tracks out of the folder. Snapping options in logic are way behind of cubase, you cannot apply a fade in/out to multiple tracks, (not to mention PDC!!!), not to mention that it is now only mac, and not to even mention that you have to pay 200 dolars to ask their support a question!!!
I'm working with Cubase very extensive, I see some (or a lot of things) where it could be done better, but a velocity tool is the last needed option in cubase. You have more than three ways to change it.