iZotope discontinues many plugins (iZotope and Exponential Audio)

[jens]

nah - in all these many years since I bought my first Waves plugin I didn't have to WUP even just once and all my Waves plugins still work flawlessly on my current machine... (I'm on Windows, so your mileage may vary)

As you know, so I am. But you can't tell me that you're still using Waves Installers since what... V6 or V7 even? You know, 32bit plugins? (well, Reaper loads them without issues... so I get it).

My oldest plugins are V9 (six years old) and so they're all 64bit... I changed machines several times since then (I think I am on the fourth one now) - first Win7, then Win 10 and now Win 11... and never got they more than at max 29.99 per plugin from me, often less.

And yes, that means I have quite a few different Waveshells installed on my machine - that's a non-issue.
(Yes, it was a bit of a pain to install the older ones for a while, but the yimproved Central significantly in the meantime.)


If one day Windows on Arm really becomes a thing I'll WUP them all in one go - and Waves will really have deserved that money then.


With companies like Izotope we are completely out of luck then though (or at best at their mercy) - which is the huge difference why I brought up Waves in the first place.

[sin night]

While I'm definitely not a fan of WUP, at least it provides (paid) compatibility updates when something breaks because of new technology (new daw, new operating system, new cpu architecture...). Put some good money on the table and keep using the old tools (I think they never discontinued a plugin so far), at least Waves provides this option...


It goes without saying that I'm not happy with iZotope's decision of discontinuing all those plugins, especially the Exponential Audio ones (but also Trash). I can keep on using them on my Windows machine for the foreseable future, but I'll probably have to look for some replacements (I already have a good amount of good reverbs, but Exponential Audio ones had their niche in my setup).

I read there are a pair of Exponential Audio reverbs still for sale which can import other reverbs' presets, but don't sound exactly the same from what I understand... I would have understood discontinuing the old reverbs if the all the features were to be consolidated into one or two "super-plugin reverbs" capable of providing exactly the same sound (and more, of course!), but I find it hard to understand when the sound isn't exactly the same... Reverbs are like instruments, they are colours, they are very different from a restoration tool which you may want to keep up to date with the latest advancements in order to improve your results.

Also, I'm concerned about Exponential Audio plugins because, unfortunately, Lexicon doesn't seem to be doing much to its line of plugins (so it's not a great alternative for me at the moment)... I'll probably end up buying some of the Valhalla DSP's reverbs, but I would have been happier if I had to buy them to expand my plugin collection rather than as a replacement for discontinued ones... with the discontinuation od many Exponential Audio reverbs, I feel like the options for great ITB reverbs are drying up...


Then there's Trash... I've got it for free or for a very low price years ago, I didn't use it much, but it is something unique...

[Compyfox]

Just a quick one...

@jens:
So you have been using one installer per version A topic I find far from ideal. And I've been told so often "just do this" -- something I try to avoid if possible (because things can get really messy really quick). This is where I actually fully support Melda Production... upgrades for life, although you really have to stay "up to date" in places.

But whatever works for you - I won't judge.





@sin night:
The bigger concern is, that there is zero replacement for Exponential Audio "Excalibur". The still available, and basically "just released" reverbs can apparently load presets from their predecessors, but I've read so often, that it's quite the hassle. If you want a "Lexicon" alternative, then the two companies to go for, are RELAB Development, and as you already figured, ValhallaDSP.

Another thing that is overlooked, and where I am very skeptical, is "Stutter Edit 2". It is still(!) not M1 compatible (needs Rosetta 2), and by the notion of iZotope dropping "10 year old code", that is a huge warning sign.





And speaking of warning signs...

What about Plugin Alliance? I did some digging here. The "Soundwide" kick-off was on 12th April 2022. Funny enough, most of the Plugin Alliance plugins were last updated on 29th April (MacOS) and 28th April (Windows) respectively (not even kidding, I've downloaded nearly all ZIP files and checked them for file dates!). After that, really only new releases were addressed. Parallel to the Freebie Offerings to celebrate the launch, which even went into June 2022, the insane mass-sales at Plugin Alliance, which turned really crazy deal wise after Superbooth 2022 (mid May 2022).

We now have Windows 11 22H2 (early October) and now also MacOS 13 (24th October). It is yet to be seen if there will be maintenance/compatibility updates or not. In fact, there wasn't even a warning this time to "wait with OS updates".


However... the biggest thing that stands out:
Lindell Audio's old released have been... left as they were.

I am not kidding:
ChannelX was last updated in July 2017 for MacOS (that is MacOS 10.12 Sierra), and October 2015 for Windows (that is still Windows 8.1, Windows 10 was just being rolled out!!!!). Same goes for the 500-series modules by Lindell Audio (same release dates). Lindell Audio 254E was last updated in July 2017 (MacOS 10.12 Sierra), and January 2016 (Windows 10 1511). Lindell Audio's 354E was updated in July 2017 as well (one day prior to 254E actually, MacOS 10.12 Sierra), and April 2017 (Windows 10 1607). Notice the month-long difference!

The Lindell Audio 80 series was last updated in March 2020 (MacOS 10.15 Catalina / Win10 1909), and the Lindell Audio 50 series in January 2021 (MacOS 11 (M1) / Windows 10 20H2). The next plugin in line was 902 De-Esser, which was last updated on November 2021 (MacOS 12 (M1) / Windows 10 21H1 and Windows 11 21H2).

Funny enough, Lindell Audio's TE-100 was updated in March 2022 (MacOS 12 (M1) / Windows 10/11 21H2). And finally, the last Lindell Audio release was from 12. July 2022 (MacOS 12 (M1) / Windows 10/11 21H2).



Considering what happened early October with Native Instruments (most notably: Absynth, and the nigh complete replacement of the Kontakt factory sounds), then considering the ongoing sales on Massive and FM8 (especially at third party vendors. Then just the other day with iZotope (the mass drop of "10 year old code" to "make room for something new")...

...the ongoing sales at Plugin Alliance (which are even lower now!), and in certain places even yearlong lack of updates... this is concerning.

[glokraw]

I emailed Izotope mentioning how Bitwig dev had open-sourced his 'old' Surge plugin,
and it's new life among open-source developers, and that Iris might also fair well
out in the wilds. Also requested that their products could be installed and registered with
Native Access, even at the price of not needing some iteration of ilok

[aMUSEd]

Actually I have officially put in a complaint through support - they should be offering us Exponential Customers reasonable or even free cross grades to Stratus and Symphony - I paid for my products well before they started bargain basementing them - which was their choice.

Well this kind came to something in that support emailed me back promising to put loyalty coupons for Stratus and Symphony in my account. They are now there but tbh between them they still want me to pay approx £100 just to get back products I already own (as I have no need for the surround functionality) so maybe I will just wait till they have a $10 sale

[pottering]

...

There is also this video where they pretty much did some planned press on Pensado's Place and talked about the subscription model, basically trying to justify it by claiming inclusiveness ( lots of companies favourite thing to say nowadays because that automatically means it's a good thing and makes people not criticize it or analyze it deeply because if they do that must mean they don't want inclusiveness):



He also mentioned thinking about people on a budget, hence the sub model. That is good in a way, for one of the reasons i mentioned, but in the long run that will end up costing the sub buyers so much more money than if they bought them right away, and if inclusiveness and being budget friendly is the plan, why not rent to own and let people own the plugins instead of having to pay to use them? That would help the people on a budget, right?
Not to mention the slap in the face for all those who have been showing loyalty and purchasing/upgrading the advanced versions. And don't even get me started on the loyalty pricings; they are insulting.

...

Some interesting things in that video.

First, it is clear it is not the "suits", but the main dev pushing subscription (he is Soundwide's CTO now), and he says it was talked inside the company "for 5 or 6 years".

He explicitly says they are pursuing "SaaS" ("software as a service") at 15:43.

Another telling part at 17:12 where he says they invested heavily in cloud capabilities, that currently it is only Spire, but it will be used across their entire product line.

Of course, "cloud" means you don't have the software (no matter how the pricing works), it is on a server, completely outside any customer's control (even the highly technically proficient ones).

(Adobe did that, introduced Creative Cloud in 2011, by 2013 they already killed Creative Suite. Cloud-only since then. Adobe just removed Pantone colors from their products, they will be updated in the cloud, no one can't use an older version that still had Pantone. Your files with Pantone won' t open right, even the old files from Creative Suite days.)

https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/28/fade ... he-process

NI's past CEO said the same thing in 2018 even before Soundwide (at 8:40).



"We've just done starting the transition from perpetual licenses to subscription, software as a service."

(I have to note how the transition included firing 1/3 of their employees back in 2019, 150 people.)


https://cdm.link/2019/09/native-instruments-cuts/

Of course, Plugin Alliance already had a subscription plan going before joining Soundwide.

(I wonder how much of the expected "synergy" between those companies actually revolves around iZotope's cloud tech?)

Honestly, they pretty much already told us what is the plan.

They are moving to cloud-only, subscrition-only, software as a service.

Exactly what Adobe did.

Adobe also kept permanent licenses for Creative Suite for a few years (Creative Cloud was introduced in 2011, Creative Suite was killed in 2013).

They are going to keep permanent licenses for a while until they feel safe pulling the plug, after they have enough subs we can say bye-bye to non-cloud.

[ghettosynth]

Honestly, they pretty much already told us what is the plan.

They are moving to cloud-only, subscrition-only, software as a service.

Exactly what Adobe did.

Adobe also kept permanent licenses for Creative Suite for a few years (Creative Cloud was introduced in 2011, Creative Suite was killed in 2013).

They are going to keep permanent licenses for a while until they feel safe pulling the plug, after they have enough subs we can say bye-bye to non-cloud.

You're gonna get the deniers all upset.

[revvy]

Subscription wet dreams for music software companies were understandable, perhaps, based on World Economy 2.0.

Under the now emerging WE3.0? I’m not convinced.

Haven’t spent a penny on any of these companies for a long while after spending quite a lot in the past. Not my preferred payment model.

I won’t be missed, neither will they.

[Igor Sena]

...

There is also this video where they pretty much did some planned press on Pensado's Place and talked about the subscription model, basically trying to justify it by claiming inclusiveness ( lots of companies favourite thing to say nowadays because that automatically means it's a good thing and makes people not criticize it or analyze it deeply because if they do that must mean they don't want inclusiveness):



He also mentioned thinking about people on a budget, hence the sub model. That is good in a way, for one of the reasons i mentioned, but in the long run that will end up costing the sub buyers so much more money than if they bought them right away, and if inclusiveness and being budget friendly is the plan, why not rent to own and let people own the plugins instead of having to pay to use them? That would help the people on a budget, right?
Not to mention the slap in the face for all those who have been showing loyalty and purchasing/upgrading the advanced versions. And don't even get me started on the loyalty pricings; they are insulting.

...

Some interesting things in that video.

First, it is clear it is not the "suits", but the main dev pushing subscription (he is Soundwide's CTO now), and he says it was talked inside the company "for 5 or 6 years".

He explicitly says they are pursuing "SaaS" ("software as a service") at 15:43.

Another telling part at 17:12 where he says they invested heavily in cloud capabilities, that currently it is only Spire, but it will be used across their entire product line.

Of course, "cloud" means you don't have the software (no matter how the pricing works), it is on a server, completely outside any customer's control (even the highly technically proficient ones).

(Adobe did that, introduced Creative Cloud in 2011, by 2013 they already killed Creative Suite. Cloud-only since then. Adobe just removed Pantone colors from their products, they will be updated in the cloud, no one can't use an older version that still had Pantone. Your files with Pantone won' t open right, even the old files from Creative Suite days.)

https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/28/fade ... he-process

NI's past CEO said the same thing in 2018 even before Soundwide (at 8:40).



"We've just done starting the transition from perpetual licenses to subscription, software as a service."

(I have to note how the transition included firing 1/3 of their employees back in 2019, 150 people.)


https://cdm.link/2019/09/native-instruments-cuts/

Of course, Plugin Alliance already had a subscription plan going before joining Soundwide.

(I wonder how much of the expected "synergy" between those companies actually revolves around iZotope's cloud tech?)

Honestly, they pretty much already told us what is the plan.

They are moving to cloud-only, subscrition-only, software as a service.

Exactly what Adobe did.

Adobe also kept permanent licenses for Creative Suite for a few years (Creative Cloud was introduced in 2011, Creative Suite was killed in 2013).

They are going to keep permanent licenses for a while until they feel safe pulling the plug, after they have enough subs we can say bye-bye to non-cloud.

quote=pottering post_id=8544223 time=1667034532 user_id=344392]

...

There is also this video where they pretty much did some planned press on Pensado's Place and talked about the subscription model, basically trying to justify it by claiming inclusiveness ( lots of companies favourite thing to say nowadays because that automatically means it's a good thing and makes people not criticize it or analyze it deeply because if they do that must mean they don't want inclusiveness):



He also mentioned thinking about people on a budget, hence the sub model. That is good in a way, for one of the reasons i mentioned, but in the long run that will end up costing the sub buyers so much more money than if they bought them right away, and if inclusiveness and being budget friendly is the plan, why not rent to own and let people own the plugins instead of having to pay to use them? That would help the people on a budget, right?
Not to mention the slap in the face for all those who have been showing loyalty and purchasing/upgrading the advanced versions. And don't even get me started on the loyalty pricings; they are insulting.

...

Some interesting things in that video.

First, it is clear it is not the "suits", but the main dev pushing subscription (he is Soundwide's CTO now), and he says it was talked inside the company "for 5 or 6 years".

He explicitly says they are pursuing "SaaS" ("software as a service") at 15:43.

Another telling part at 17:12 where he says they invested heavily in cloud capabilities, that currently it is only Spire, but it will be used across their entire product line.

Of course, "cloud" means you don't have the software (no matter how the pricing works), it is on a server, completely outside any customer's control (even the highly technically proficient ones).

(Adobe did that, introduced Creative Cloud in 2011, by 2013 they already killed Creative Suite. Cloud-only since then. Adobe just removed Pantone colors from their products, they will be updated in the cloud, no one can't use an older version that still had Pantone. Your files with Pantone won' t open right, even the old files from Creative Suite days.)

https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/28/fade ... he-process

NI's past CEO said the same thing in 2018 even before Soundwide (at 8:40).



"We've just done starting the transition from perpetual licenses to subscription, software as a service."

(I have to note how the transition included firing 1/3 of their employees back in 2019, 150 people.)


https://cdm.link/2019/09/native-instruments-cuts/

Of course, Plugin Alliance already had a subscription plan going before joining Soundwide.

(I wonder how much of the expected "synergy" between those companies actually revolves around iZotope's cloud tech?)

Honestly, they pretty much already told us what is the plan.

They are moving to cloud-only, subscrition-only, software as a service.

Exactly what Adobe did.

Adobe also kept permanent licenses for Creative Suite for a few years (Creative Cloud was introduced in 2011, Creative Suite was killed in 2013).

They are going to keep permanent licenses for a while until they feel safe pulling the plug, after they have enough subs we can say bye-bye to non-cloud.
[/quote]

Very well said. I would just disagree on the fact that its not the suits. I think it's all of them. The suits made an investment because they saw the potential of NI and iZotope's ecosystem and that said ecosystem would fit particularly well with the sub model so they have to push for that to recover their initial investment and get way more back, until it either keeps being profitable or they can sell out and leave with the cash bags.

It's pretty obvious what the plan is. The only thing stopping this is people voting with the wallet and not using the subscription service but when it comes to NI at least there are so many people who depend on that ecosystem that i'm affraid it is only a matter of time.

The good thing about this is that thankfully there are always new companies who at least for now, are still passionate about what they do and not just about numbers, and their products are worthy of using. Maybe they don't have the alghoritms (or not as effective algos) that for example RX has but some do a fine job.

I almost feel like people are so used to paying for subscriptions in so many things, from gym to internet, to videogames, printer cartridges, etc that they are climatized to this awful model already.

Don't get me wrong, this is all complicated from a company standpoint; they to have bills to pay, employees, dreams, also they want more money like all of us. I believe if a company makes a great product they deserve to get paid and the more they get paid the more we can keep using them but to lie to costumers, to do shady things like heavilly discounting and selling products that you know well are about to get discontinued is gaming industry level scam. Not to mention taking advantage of the fact that people have been spending thousands upon thousands for your ecosystem and now you slowly but surely want to make a predatory move on that fact.

But still the problem is the people who keep paying for subscriptions instead of "voting with the wallet". Some people make enough money and don't care. Others think they depend on one product only to make/mix/master good music. And others don't know much about what is going with these companies so they don't see the patterns of shady behaviour.

Now having all of this said and to play devils advocate: if you upgrade your music production suite every year, paying for the sub is probably not bad since you would pay for the yearly/bi yearly upgrade anyway and thats what would cost you anyway. Also, if you just need some tools for a project you will do once or from now and then, it is also a good, inexpensive and cheap option.
There is also the fact that how long can iZotope keep improving their products until they hit a wall? The sub model would ensure they have the funds to keep going. But the problem is that the sub model would probably stiffle the product's evolution even more.


I would gladly pay for the upgrades anyway (as long as they are not insulting like the loyalty prices they offer) but i won't let anyone take advantage of me or my wallet. I will just move on to another company if i have to
That wouldn't be ideal of course, but if that is what i need to not be taken advantage of or support a company who lies to me as a costumer i won't even hesitate.

Let's hope for the best but it is not looking good at all, specially when you see who purchased a huge stake with them and Native Instruments(Francisco Partners). Now their job is to maximize profit to recover the investment and maybe later sell out and leave like they love doing.

[Igor Sena]

Subscription wet dreams for music software companies were understandable, perhaps, based on World Economy 2.0.

Under the now emerging WE3.0? I’m not convinced.

Haven’t spent a penny on any of these companies for a long while after spending quite a lot in the past. Not my preferred payment model.

I won’t be missed, neither will they.

Well said.

The problem is that for anyone like you and me there are deniers and people who have enough that they don't care to be pimped out. If only those had the same way of thinking, half these companies would go broke after moving to the sub model.

[ghettosynth]

Subscription wet dreams for music software companies were understandable, perhaps, based on World Economy 2.0.

Under the now emerging WE3.0? I’m not convinced.

Haven’t spent a penny on any of these companies for a long while after spending quite a lot in the past. Not my preferred payment model.

I won’t be missed, neither will they.

Yeah, that's probably not going to stop them from trying. I try to think about whether my own patterns are just typical of what happens when you get a bit older. I've just stopped buying music software for the most part. From anyone, not just the big vendors. Once in a blue moon I pick up something small and cool from an independent, but I think the last time that happened it was over a year ago. About the same time I popped for what will probably be the last Eventide upgrade for me.

It is, however, at least in part, by how unexcited I've been about new offerings from the big vendors over the last few years. So many emails, so much bullshit.

[jens]

Just a quick one...

@jens:
So you have been using one installer per version A topic I find far from ideal.

No- the same Waves Central deals with all version after nine. The latter they call "legacy" and you have to download one extra installer to install them. Their licences are now dealt with in Central too.

[revvy]

Subscription wet dreams for music software companies were understandable, perhaps, based on World Economy 2.0.

Under the now emerging WE3.0? I’m not convinced.

Haven’t spent a penny on any of these companies for a long while after spending quite a lot in the past. Not my preferred payment model.

I won’t be missed, neither will they.

Yeah, that's probably not going to stop them from trying. I try to think about whether my own patterns are just typical of what happens when you get a bit older. I've just stopped buying music software for the most part. From anyone, not just the big vendors. Once in a blue moon I pick up something small and cool from an independent, but I think the last time that happened it was over a year ago. About the same time I popped for what will probably be the last Eventide upgrade for me.

It is, however, at least in part, by how unexcited I've been about new offerings from the big vendors over the last few years. So many emails, so much bullshit.

True that I’m, ahem, not as young as I used to be (lost a lot of weight recently though ).

I do spend way less but more than zero. In the next few months, likely expenditure on ujam, FabFilter, ReFX (!!!!) and Ableton. I’m good with that.

Oh, and bass pedal hardware on the new Giza (great name) by Does It Doom.

[vurt]

great pyramid too!

[revvy]

great pyramid too!

Check out the associated merch too, great T-shirt!

https://doesitdoom.com/product/giza/