MAKE BELIEVE STUDIOS - SONTEC MES 432-D9D | MakeBelieve Bundle

[jens]

https://www.presonus.com/learn/technica ... e-Modeling

"It all starts with sourcing the original schematics of a particular amp or outboard processor. This circuit diagram is then transferred into a mathematical model that exactly describes each individual component on the circuit, the relationship between them, and how they interact with one another. "

But on the Make Believe website it is called "extraction process", which sounds like some (semi-)automatic system that kind of "samples" various states and subsequently is able to (attempt to) reproduce them.

[jens]

From over at Gearspace:

hey M2E we had someone do the shoot out and this was his result! its hard to not sound biased but i absolutely love it and loved shooting it out agianst me 250 ex as well - Ryan MB

About the @ MakeBelieve studio Sontec 432... I did the comparison with the IK Multimedia 432 and the Scarlet from Acustica Audio. Here are my observations:
•
1- AA Scarlet: It's pretty colorful. Grainy. Just about over saturated. Feel less headroom than the competition. They have interesting additional options like M/S, PreAmp color and input/output trim buttons. The low-mid saturation is too much for my taste. Hi's leave a lot to be desired. AA has really good plugins, but I see why I never use Scarlet 4.
•
2- IK 432: A nice plugin. Very musical. It has more headroom than AA and its sound is less saturated. The hi's are nice. The low mids feel suffocated, mildly. It's nicer than AA. Without a doubt! The Hi Shelf is fixed unlike the rest.
•
3- MB SONTEC: The hi is very musical and enjoyable. Gotta be careful because it looks like it's not doing much, but you put the bypass on and the difference is day and night. It's got a lot of headroom. The stereo bus never felt choked or limited by the EQ. He has the same kind of character as others, in terms of color, but much more musical and enjoyable. The low and low mid is solid. I wish I could adjust the size of the graphics interface of this plugin.
WINNER: MB Sontec 4329D9
SECOND: IK 432 " - Orlando L. Ferrer

[plexuss]

https://www.presonus.com/learn/technica ... e-Modeling

"It all starts with sourcing the original schematics of a particular amp or outboard processor. This circuit diagram is then transferred into a mathematical model that exactly describes each individual component on the circuit, the relationship between them, and how they interact with one another. "

But on the Make Believe website it is called "extraction process", which sounds like some (semi-)automatic system that kind of "samples" various states and subsequently is able to (attempt to) reproduce them.

My rant was about the time domain variances that occur in analogue that, IMHO, are the essence of what makes analogue differ from digital, sonically. The Make Believe website reference is about modelling the components in terms of their "static" parameters and how they interact when connected in a circuit. If done accurately, will mimic the circuit in a "perfect" static state. For example, a 100k ohm resistor in the circuit can be modelled at an exact value of 100k. But in real life no resistor is perfect - no only do they have a variance around the average "static" values but that value will also change over time due to material and environmental changes. It's this latter part that I have never seen modelled.

[jens]

It's actually been modelled numerous times in one way or the other... Eventide Instant Phaser comes to mind - but it is of course no requiremement for proper analog modelling - just some extra candy.

[plexuss]

It's actually been modelled numerous times in one way or the other... Eventide Instant Phaser comes to mind - but it is of course no requiremement for proper analog modelling - just some extra candy.

Ah yes that's true about the Instant Phaser, also their Harmonizer, I had forgotten about that. However they only modelled the variation in the specific parameter, not the variations in the electronics. PA TMT attemtps to give some semblance of static variances but not time domain. Some VA synths do similar with oscilator drift... but these are varying those specific parameters in the time domain vs the underlying circuit and components.

I don't know of any others but if you do, let us know!

[jens]

Ah yes that's true about the Instant Phaser, also their Harmonizer, I had forgotten about that. However they only modelled the variation in the specific parameter, not the variations in the electronics.

I don't know what you mean with that...

Age

Things age, there’s nothing we can do about time, and electrical components are no
different. While modeling the Instant Phaser we discovered certain side effects from
the aged components that, while not intended in the initial design, contribute to the
sound of our current box. Of course, the logical thing to do with this information is take
it to the extreme. What would happen if this thing aged another hundred years? Thus,
the Age knob was born. At 0% this corresponds to a box that is fresh out of the factory
in 1972. At 25% this matches our current box exactly. At 100%, well... they say things
get better with age, but only to a certain extent. With the age knob you are literally
controlling the age of the electrical components that make up the Instant Phaser

[MakeBelieveStudio]

Hi Ryan here, i just want to comment that we use a new technology that no other company has called space state extraction

2nd. This is the first Sontec plugin licensed by Burgess him self. you should try this before you dismiss it.

[plexuss]

Hi Ryan here, i just want to comment that we use a new technology that no other company has called space state extraction

2nd. This is the first Sontec plugin licensed by Burgess him self. you should try this before you dismiss it.

Yeah that's cool. Extrapolation between two measured points. But then question is what is the nature of the extrapolation? So your tech is a human-tailored extrapolation algorithm. That's a cool way to move beyond stepped setting hardware, I have seen a lot of people suggest that this be done for emulations of stepped setting hardware.

[jens]

After the video I am still none the wiser what it actually is. He said it is hard to describe (and then continues to not actually do it), but I often get the impression that many people tend to confuse abstraction and vagueness. The former can usually be made more comprehensible rather easily, the latter not.

Either way there is nothing in the video that makes it sound different to the basic method Presonus are using.
In any case it seems less complex&accurate than VOS' "stateful saturation", where the "state" refers to the current load of the system that not only takes into account what is happening right now but also what happened a moment before, rather than assuming a certain input would always yield the exact same non-linear behaviour.

[gaggle of hermits]

Hi Ryan here, i just want to comment that we use a new technology that no other company has called space state extraction

2nd. This is the first Sontec plugin licensed by Burgess him self. you should try this before you dismiss it.

julius smith at stanford's ccrma has been teaching state-space modelling for many years and his book that includes it came out in 2010. so, the idea that no-one has used it ever before in audio fx modelling seems a bit fanciful. maybe they just didn't shout about it.

[bmanic]

.. and Sonalksis released their SV-517 "state space modeled" EQ over a decade ago.

Whatever the technique is used in the Sontec plugin, I stay by my original impressions, having ran the demo now since the release. It's absolutely amazing. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I'm trying to figure that out. It has the uncanny ability of making signals sound "more real", similar in feel how some Acustica Audio plugins do too. However here it's much more subtle, but it's there. Some kind of dynamic behavior that just seems to breathe with the incoming audio. Hard to explain but this is what I'm hearing. Whatever it is, it's very pleasing. Is it 300$ worth of pleasing? I don't know.. if I can justify it for some work related things then I might go for it, but for just a basic home/hobby purchase? No way..

I'm also not exactly thrilled by the vagueness of these guys and I wasn't at all impressed by their other plugins. The just math's thing is unpleasant sounding to my ears (sounds like low-amplitude bit crushing, everything gets a bit grainy and harsh) and the limiter has some serious issues and the MP EQ is like a plugin from 2005 where everything is cramping and aliasing all over the place. So yeah, I don't know what to make of it all.

[simmo75]

How does this compare with Acustica’s Ivory?

[Deisss]

May I ask (because it's not stated anywhere) how many ilok activation you got with one purchase (notably many of us use 2 computers or more, and use 2 dongle for that), and, second question, is it ilok cloud compatible or not?

[scalawag]

May I ask (because it's not stated anywhere) how many ilok activation you got with one purchase (notably many of us use 2 computers or more, and use 2 dongle for that), and, second question, is it ilok cloud compatible or not?

To my ears, Scarlet is superior to Ivory. Still have to test this Sontec against Scarlet4 Classic (and not Scarlet4........)

[Deisss]

So I bought it, as it was very very good in my testing.

It's ilok cloud compatible, and you got 2 slot (so you can do one on the ilok dongle and one in ilok cloud).

Also, lining up for the Windows version too as I use both Mac and Windows so it's a shame it's mac only...