iZotope discontinues many plugins (iZotope and Exponential Audio)

[PAK]

By deniers I mean that those that deny that this is the direction the big players are trying to go and that it is there plan to try to eliminate perpetual licensing. Not that it's a foregone conclusion that it will succeed in some particular way.

I get that. But I'd also say there's reasonable grounds for their "denial" (A slightly polarizing term I'm not keen on.. Zeus Voice: YOU DENY?!?!.. )

They might want rental only, but to achieve it in this market (meaning consumers / artists.. Education / corporate may be more responsive to rental) then I'd reckon they either have to super-serve very specific niches willing to pay (EG Composing tools for video production), have software where the user cannot easily switch (examples would be Protools or Cubase, maybe Kontakt to some degree) so they are "semi-stuck" with the decision, or find ways to create similar lock in.. Like having hardware reliant on their products in some way. EG Maschine.

If they think they can achieve the same simply by having a wide enough range of tools, which people become reliant on, before slowly carrying users along into a rental model, then I'd say there's still an awful lot of wishful thinking by them. That whole "because Netflix and Spotify", which portrays any acceptance of rental as being the same, is just silly if they think that. Unless there's many fundamental changes, about the present plugin market, I reckon they would struggle because there's just too much competition.

EG I'd like to continue to use the EA reverbs. But the reality is I already have too many quality reverbs. If they present almost any barrier, to my continued usage, then I'll simply move to other products.

As I said, I don't use any of the Izotope stuff (not because of rental, but because I don't consider stuff like Ozone to be very good), and the present NI is a shell of the NI of 15 years ago. Maybe some of you aren't of that opinion and would find yourselves locked in. But, for me, they're not coming at any of this from a position of strength. Though perhaps I over-estimate the size of a rental-only market which would be sufficient for them..

[Kaboom75]

Dammit they put Exponential Audio Plugins R4 and Excalibur on their junk pile. Already been demoing Liquidsonics and use Valhalla's reverbs.

[digitalboytn]

As I said, I don't use any of the Izotope stuff (not because of rental, but because I don't consider stuff like Ozone to be very good), and the present NI is a shell of the NI of 15 years ago.

The frustrating thing is that both companies have peeps who can code top of the line products,but they seem to be constrained by corporate considerations..

The bean counters and the suits...

But, for me, they're not coming at any of this from a position of strength.

Agree ...it's pretty hard to try and dictate the terms and conditions when your fortunes are in decline...You'd think that they'd be trying to build the customer base - not alienating them...

After all....

It's harder to win customers that it is to lose them

[billcarroll]

The iZotope loyalty offers to upgrade the Exponential Audio reverbs to Symphony 3D $249 and Stratus 3D $199 are ludicrous. Way too high, especially for a company and product line with a history of being discontinued.

[ChamomileShark]

The loyalty upgrade to normal Symphony is $79 plus tax, and $49 plus tax for Stratus. I think when I looked at them before they didn't really give me anything more I needed, I just work in stereo.

I think I'd hold off and see what happens for a year or so before considering upgrading and quite possibly never will.

[noiseboyuk]

FWIW, from iZotope:

Did you know that Exponential Audio products are built on two core engines? One engine features more "natural"-sounding reverbs, the other engine focuses on reverbs with more "character."

The "natural reverb" line includes NIMBUS, PhoenixVerb, PhoenixVerb Surround, and culminates with Stratus 3D as the best, most modern version of this engine. The other versions are variants that have older tech.

The "character reverb" line includes R2, R4, R2 Surround, and culminates with Symphony 3D. As with the other line of reverbs, Symphony 3D improves on the tech and innovation of the other variants.

As a software company, we must continuously review our product portfolio in order to plan how and where we invest our development resources. In order to best deliver on our reverb products, we decided to streamline our Exponential Audio product line to the two most modern versions of these products: Stratus 3D and Symphony 3D.

As a sign of our commitment, we have updated them both with M1 support and have also refreshed their user interface design.

Alongside this transition, it’s important to us to offer exceptional loyalty deals to customers who own the versions that are being discontinued. We want everyone to experience the latest and greatest, if they so choose. Check out these offers in your account.

P.S. One last benefit of the way these engines evolved, for people considering the upgrade:

PhoenixVerb, PhoenixVerb Surround, and NIMBUS presets can be opened in Stratus 3D.
R2, R2 Surround, and R4 presets can be opened in Symphony 3D.
Find out more information on preset migration here.

I didn't realise the GUIs had been updated. I have both Stratus and Symphony 3D (as part of bundles) and I never use them, partly because I hate the GUIs, and mostly because I find them redundant with a lot of other great reverbs that I have. The new GUIs are an improvement, easier on the eye, but they are a missed opportunity really. One reason why Altiverb gets so much pro use is simply its browser, with visuals for every space - I can't tell you how useful that is in a post production environment where time is precious. The browsers in the Exponential reverbs are still hopeless.

[kevvvvv]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the Sub Model can easily be used to conceal the lack of innovation and new features expected of a paid-for point upgrade.

Presonus Studio One's v6 is an example of a dev dishing out a meagre point upgrade and asking $150 for the privilege.

The paucity of new features would have been much easier to bury inside a Sub Model.

ditto Kontakt 7. Good on new samples (thank you) but still the same old tiny workplace gui. The new browser is prob best for Komplete Kontrol users (not me)

The point being that the Sub Model lets devs duck having to justify a weak point upgrade price.

[aMUSEd]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the Sub Model can easily be used to conceal the lack of innovation and new features expected of a paid-for point upgrade.

Presonus Studio One's v6 is an example of a dev dishing out a meagre point upgrade and asking $150 for the privilege.

The paucity of new features would have been much easier to bury inside a Sub Model.

ditto Kontakt 7. Good on new samples (thank you) but still the same old tiny workplace gui. The new browser is prob best for Komplete Kontrol users (not me)

The point being that the Sub Model lets devs duck having to justify a weak point upgrade price.

Exactly - basically it means they have a steady stream of money coming in leading to complacency

[fmr]

I have a Windows 10 system (currently), and I have been pretty lucky in what concerns longevity. Even plug-ins whose developers no longer work, like Lin Plug and Camel Audio, for example, still work in the current system. Sure, the authorization methods are relatively safe (serial numbers, basically), but I am sure that I can keep them work for a very long time still.

[fcamp]

Yep, as I am in Windows I plan to keep using them. Only when no longer possible, I will consider the upgrading to Stratus and Symphony.

[martinjuenke]

The loyalty upgrade to normal Symphony is $79 plus tax, and $49 plus tax for Stratus. I think when I looked at them before they didn't really give me anything more I needed, I just work in stereo.

I think I'd hold off and see what happens for a year or so before considering upgrading and quite possibly never will.

You are not alone

[noiseboyuk]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the Sub Model can easily be used to conceal the lack of innovation and new features expected of a paid-for point upgrade.

It has to be said that iZotope and NI seem to be pretty unconcerned about concealing the lack of innovation even without a mandatory sub model.

It's funny how things turn around. Waves has been Most Despised KVR Developer for years, but they're almost seen as the good guys these days, even the WUP. I'm giving Clarity VX heavy usage at the moment on a TV show, I estimate I've used RX about 95% less than normal as a result. If a company's innovation stops, others will step into the vacuum.

[airon]

The loyalty upgrade to normal Symphony is $79 plus tax, and $49 plus tax for Stratus. I think when I looked at them before they didn't really give me anything more I needed, I just work in stereo.

I think I'd hold off and see what happens for a year or so before considering upgrading and quite possibly never will.

Stratus is damn stable. I've been running that one for 5.1 and stereo mixes for over three years.

If you're only doing stereo, the Neoverb has the same tech under the hood plus all the masking goodies. Why not just pick that up ?

The only thing I don't like about Stratus is the Pace iLok authorization. That's it. The reverb is fan-fu*king-tastic in its flexibility. Granted, it took me watching a detailed tutorial to really learn it, but it was worth it for what I do, which is mixing tv & film dialogue.

Ah what the hell does it matter. We're spoiled for choices. Acon Digital is great, Valhalla is awesome, Liquid Sonics is putting out one banger after another and even Izotope has put out a good one with Neoverb.

[simon.a.billington]

RX is safe it just had a new update around the same time as Ozone did. it's not going anywhere.

[Stokely]

I got the email to upgrade but probably will not. One reason is that when R4 broke (when I upgraded to Monterey) and it didn't look like they were going to ever fix it, I picked up Tai Chi Lite on sale. Kind of a similar verb. I will miss Phoenixverb, but then again I don't see why it can't stay working for a while. If it does stop working I'll replace it with something then, perhaps with reverbs I already have. I never even really got to use Excalibre since I bought it right before upgrading my OS to Monterey.

I paid 30 bucks total for R4 and Phoenixverb and don't really see spending way more than that to upgrade to basically the same thing in a new Izotope wrapper. I simply don't trust them that much at this point. They continued to sell EA products when they were not working under the current Mac OS (and only updated months later) and now announce they will drop support? Eh, there's other companies making great verbs out there. In the meantime I'll use the EA plugins until they stop working.