FM Modulation FX?

[CinningBao]

Well, yes, that's what it does. However, there are two approaches; offset the bipolar waveform so it peaks at 0 sample delay (but you need to pre-delay things), or rectify it to use 0 samples delay as the zero cross point of the waveform.

Your method uses the former, mine uses the latter.

Still though, no commercial alternatives.

I don't need to predelay things , the buffer of the delay module is set to 1000ms (which is set in the delay module settings page ) , the delay time itself is set to 0ms
The modulation amount which determins the FM amount is around 50 ms ..which modulates the buffer instantly .
If I increase the delay time offset , then yes there will be a certain delay but it's not necessary to do that .

So we design things differently. You _would_ need a pre-delay if you want to use the unaffected bipolar signal as a modulation source. Whether it's hard-coded, so you never reach <0, or dynamically updated as the FM amount is increased, if you don't pre-delay the signal you'll breach the 0 line, and you're not allowed to do that by the rules of DSP.

[CinningBao]

Still though, no commercial alternatives.

Whoever would takes money for such a basic thing should be banned…

And yet, here we are in a thread where folks are asking for it.

Perhaps it isn't for you..

[Tj Shredder]

The answers how to get that effect are given as well. I do it easily in the Grid…

[CinningBao]

Still though, no commercial alternatives.

I could just throw in a rectifier etc , all this is done in primary , If i really want to get my hands dirty I dive into core .


Which is why reaktor is my weapon of choice for over 2 decades

No need to proclaim reaktor as a saviour - I've used bidule for the around the same amount of time which serves me just fine, and this level of signal mangling, core is unnecessary.

Point is, yes this shit's easy for the folks who know modular stuff, but is a complete mystery for regular producers and musicians. So let's focus on that, and make these toys available for them. Not how fabulous you or your tools are.

[CinningBao]

The answers how to get that effect are given as well. I do it easily in the Grid…

Great! Have fun doing that and maybe document it for other users!

[WasteLand]

The answers how to get that effect are given as well. I do it easily in the Grid…

Great! Have fun doing that and maybe document it for other users!

indeed!

[gentleclockdivider]

Cytomic The Drop

Yes , when using sidechain for te filter FM you can choose whatever modulator , but you're still modulating the filter frequency
First example drop , input is sine wave , sidechain is drumloop which is FM modulating the LP filter
https://app.box.com/s/9b8alvx1c7jdb36i70jpg83856dz396c
Second example , reaktor using te delay line , left input =drumloop modulating the delay line which is fed by the sine wave
https://app.box.com/s/o0gfhqdqx62ib9tqefik3pbc6cihgox2

[Tj Shredder]

The answers how to get that effect are given as well. I do it easily in the Grid…

Great! Have fun doing that and maybe document it for other users!

indeed!

Basically this: left channel ges modulated by the right channel...

Bildschirmfoto 2022-11-03 um 15.47.24.png

Enhance it to your liking...

[gentleclockdivider]

. So let's focus on that, and make these toys available for them. Not how fabulous you or your tools are.

I wasn't blowing my own trumpet , just stating that I used reaktor for a verry long time because I can design whatever I want , and I used this stuff for years just didn't bother tooupload because it's just basic FM stuff
I have uploaded and shared a ton off stuff but stopped doing that

[gentleclockdivider]

Every few years I'll get a DM asking for a link to it, so I'm guessing there is nothing else like it out there (for which I'm mildly proud).

Okay , see above

[WasteLand]

The answers how to get that effect are given as well. I do it easily in the Grid…

Great! Have fun doing that and maybe document it for other users!

indeed!

Basically this: left channel ges modulated by the right channel...
Bildschirmfoto 2022-11-03 um 15.47.24.png
Enhance it to your liking...

thanks! and indeed, considering the other posts, this would be the result. but still, this helps me and others.

FM by delay.... thanks again!

EDIT: in a way i get it why you use a delay. but would like to know more..

(and the others... this will be a step for me, to discover more... i discover a lot myself... but nowadays i also ask, simply. to learn everything, what is already invented..)

EDIT 2: can also be done in VM this way, the new stereo delay of RFM accepts audio rate.
and of course VCV, Cardinal etc.

[CinningBao]

. So let's focus on that, and make these toys available for them. Not how fabulous you or your tools are.

I wasn't blowing my own trumpet , just stating that I used reaktor for a verry long time because I can design whatever I want , and I used this stuff for years just didn't bother tooupload because it's just basic FM stuff
I have uploaded and shared a ton off stuff but stopped doing that

Again, basic to you my friend, and me! I use bidule for exactly the same reason.

But not to a lot of regular producers and musicians, which is why I think it's important to share your approaches and ideas even on the simplest of tools! Openly talking about these concepts can help other people understand them and the playground that is DSP.

[WasteLand]

why FM by delay, is a question, of course.. some info about this will help discover more possibilties.

i know that you can use delays for all kind of stuff, not that straight forward, but FM i didn't think of.

[CinningBao]

For me, well I've always known that running a time-domain object faster results in higher pitch (from mucking around with records and tapes in my younger years) and then when I discovered chorus effects I just wondered "what happens if we make that modulating source massive".. made some nasty-ass modulated delay line things, then realised time-domain pitch shifting is done with short windows, with a small delay (to give the buffer time to fill up so it can be played a little faster than it was recorded) and lots of these short pitch-up 'grains' cross-faded to sound seamless, but that isn't always achieved. (I would point to some terrible pitch-shifters.. but you've probably come across some yourself)

So one day it occurred to me that I could modulate a delay line with a more complex signal (like a real-time input) and adjust it in such a way that the audio signal appears like an LFO to the delay line, not that any of these components have any awareness of what is before or after them; they just want numbers in the right range. And that's FM with a delay line!

Just keeping the numbers in the positive range, and multiplying accordingly is all this is really.

[WasteLand]

For me, well I've always known that running a time-domain object faster results in higher pitch (from mucking around with records and tapes in my younger years) and then when I discovered chorus effects I just wondered "what happens if we make that modulating source massive".. made some nasty-ass modulated delay line things, then realised time-domain pitch shifting is done with short windows, with a small delay (to give the buffer time to fill up so it can be played a little faster than it was recorded) and lots of these short pitch-up 'grains' cross-faded to sound seamless, but that isn't always achieved. (I would point to some terrible pitch-shifters.. but you've probably come across some yourself)

So one day it occurred to me that I could modulate a delay line with a more complex signal (like a real-time input) and adjust it in such a way that the audio signal appears like an LFO to the delay line, not that any of these components have any awareness of what is before or after them; they just want numbers in the right range. And that's FM with a delay line!

Just keeping the numbers in the positive range, and multiplying accordingly is all this is really.

thanks! very clear and with some info that will give some directions to experiment, andcto discover....