I WANT to love it...

[mdstudio]

2. Falcon: Pretty much the same reason. So much modular power, and every time I want to do something simple as edit a modulation, I´ll first have to search.

You can right click at the knob -> Edit Modulation.

[BrokenTrance]

Zebra from uhe is the obvious anwer. I love nothing about it.

[mdstudio]

Synths that use too much CPU or RAM (a lot of synths nowadays are RAM hogs). I prefer lightweight plugins.

[zerocrossing]

This is a strange one to me, because to me this list is most soft synths. I can get around about any of them, but only a dozen out of hundreds have me using them more than a few times.

Mostly I think of second tier synths, ones I use rarely, that at first I thought would be a constant part of my workflow. So ones like Lion, Knifonium, Massive X, most of Arturias synths, Repro, Xils.

Some of it is choice overload, I might like these synths, but I'm comfortable in the 5-10 synths I use all the time, so learning to get X synth to bend to my needs when I can already do that in Y synth is just more work with no reward.

Couple that with weird choices in GUI, heavy CPU hits, or in the case of Lion awkward modulation limits on what looks like at first a super modulation friendly synth puts me off. I'm still pissed about Plasmonics idiotic bass ackwards reversal of position on adjustment speed of faders depending on vertical or horizontal positioning, but in that case, I still use it all the time.

I think the issue here (for me too) is not most software synths, it’s that we own most software synths. When all I owned was an Ensoniq TS-10 and a Roland GR-33 (JV-1080 designed to work with a HEX guitar pickup) I knew them so well that their awkward and crappy bits (Especially in the GR) just sort of disappeared. I remember the first time I demoed Dune, I was like, “how the f do you turn on the second oscillator… WHERE IS THE BUTTON!?” There’s no button. You set the unison number to “1.” Now I love Dune and I’m in it all the time and I haven’t really thought of that stupid design choice in years, but I bet if I used it once every few months, I’d get annoyed by it every time.

[jamcat]

My view is every noteworthy synth is good at exactly one thing.

I'm the opposite - I think any given synth should be able to do any kind of thing I want from it. To me they are pretty much all interchangeable, or should be if they are worth using.

But historically, that really hasn't been the case, has it?

Some synths are known for their monophonic bass sounds, some for their string pads. Some for their leads. One even just for its cheesy ballad tines.

So I try to have emulations of as many noteworthy synths as I can get, and then when I want a particularly sound, I use the synth that can deliver it. If I don't want its sound, I don't use it.

I don't get this attitude, either. You could listen to any song on any of our albums and have no idea which synth is doing what, even if I'd told you which synths I'd used. They are synths, by their very nature they are capable of sounding like anything you want them to sound like. Or they should be if they are any good. If a synth is only good for one thing, then it's probably not worth having at all.

Well, you make electronic music. I don't. Even when I'm using a "synth" it's usually a physical model that synthesizes a particular acoustic instrument, like Pianoteq, MODO DRUM, or SWAM strings. When I do use a synth, I'm looking to invoke a particular sound, such as a Solina or a Moog.

[machinesworking]

I think the issue here (for me too) is not most software synths, it’s that we own most software synths. When all I owned was an Ensoniq TS-10 and a Roland GR-33 (JV-1080 designed to work with a HEX guitar pickup) I knew them so well that their awkward and crappy bits (Especially in the GR) just sort of disappeared. I remember the first time I demoed Dune, I was like, “how the f do you turn on the second oscillator… WHERE IS THE BUTTON!?” There’s no button. You set the unison number to “1.” Now I love Dune and I’m in it all the time and I haven’t really thought of that stupid design choice in years, but I bet if I used it once every few months, I’d get annoyed by it every time.

100% I've used Zebra since it was AU only 15 years ago, and in this thread there's a half dozen people not liking it etc. I find it super easy to use since for me it was one of the first soft synths along with Absynth that wasn't a worse than hardware sounding subtractive synth.

I've also owned MachFive 3 previous to UVI and MOTU dissolving their partnership so the progression to Falcon was natural to me. It's incredibly deep and great at MPE presets.

But yeah, I get the whole thing, personally I own a ridiculous amount of soft instruments, but I concentrate on 8 or so mostly so I'm not put off by their "awkward and crappy bits" and get around to getting the best out of them. Makes me think about going at Lion again, since IMO it has a sound unlike the other synths I use regularly.

[machinesworking]

My view is every noteworthy synth is good at exactly one thing.

I'm the opposite - I think any given synth should be able to do any kind of thing I want from it. To me they are pretty much all interchangeable, or should be if they are worth using.

But historically, that really hasn't been the case, has it?

Some synths are known for their monophonic bass sounds, some for their string pads. Some for their leads. One even just for its cheesy ballad tines.

Yeah I'm not sure I get why Bones is making this claim? He will also claim that overtly complex synths like Falcon, Zebra etc. are overkill.

Maybe just maybe, there are huge workstation like soft synths that can "do anything" like Falcon, Zebra, Omnisphere etc. and specialty synths like Monark, OB-Xtreme, Knifonium, FM8, virtually 95% of Arturia's line up, that are about a single hardware emulation or specific type of sound.

What's funny to me is half the arguments here are based on people not liking complex workstation/ virtual modular type synths, and/or people not liking emulations.

[Saukar30]

Arturia SQ8V. I’m really not an Arturia as I don’t like the sound of their synths (they all sound kind of lifeless to me). Because I love the free SQ8L I thought the feature set would make Arturia’s offering a better replacement. I was wrong.

Massive X. It has a lot of power. But it looks like an alien spaceship. Maybe I need to spend more time with it.

Waves Elements 2. Beautiful sound, but eats my CPU for breakfast.

Most wavetable synths. To me most sound thin & uninspiring unless there’s some unison going on. That will in turn raise the CPU which will in turn make me not want to use them. Maybe just wavetables that come with most of them are just not my cup of tea. I will say that WTs offer an endless possibility in what can be done. Maybe I’m not versed in them to find a technique that works for me yet. That being said, I like Massive 1, Dune 3, Falcon & Omnisphere. Their engines just give wavetables a better sonic emphasis in my opinion.

Vital. For me it’s too much clicking.

For me, a weighty sound is most important. I’ll find a way to get around a GUI if the the synth overall is pleasing to my ears (except Massive X & Vital). Im more of VA kind of a guy.

[BONES]

But historically, that really hasn't been the case, has it?

It definitely has been for me, at least since the days tha tmy set-up allowed such luxuries. Prior to having a MIDI sequencer, I had things hardwired so that they always got used for the same thing but that was almost 40 years ago.

Some synths are known for their monophonic bass sounds, some for their string pads. Some for their leads. One even just for its cheesy ballad tines.

Those are arbitrary distinctions made by clueless idiots. Honestly, anyone with any experience working with synths would understand that. You moight have your own preferences but that's all they'd be, personal preference.

When I do use a synth, I'm looking to invoke a particular sound, such as a Solina or a Moog.

I don't even know what that means. Obviously a Solina is only good for one thing but the only time I can tell I'm listening to a Moog is when it starts to sound awful because of its shit filter. 99% of the time, it could be anything.

Yeah I'm not sure I get why Bones is making this claim?

Because I've been using synths for more than 40 years and it is completely f**king obvious.

He will also claim that overtly complex synths like Falcon, Zebra etc. are overkill.

And 99% of the time I am absolutely right.

Maybe just maybe, there are huge workstation like soft synths that can "do anything" like Falcon, Zebra, Omnisphere etc. and specialty synths like Monark, OB-Xtreme, Knifonium, FM8, virtually 95% of Arturia's line up, that are about a single hardware emulation or specific type of sound.

And maybe 99% of the time you wouldn't have the first clue which you were hearing.

[Rod Staples]

Try Neumann Pro by Plugmon!

You made me go to their website. Interesting.

And it says this on the 'About Us' page.

"I believe GUI changes how you feel, how you work, hence the sound itself." Yuta Yoshimatsu (Graphic Designer)

I agree with this, and I've also noticed that my perception of how a sound is working in the mix is better when I close the GUI of a synth.

As in - there is something uncomfortable about the sound I've been working on, but I close the GUI thinking I'll try something else, but then notice actually it is working quite well.

[Erik_Lucas]

Another thread, another BONES argument...

[chagzuki]

Definitely Falcon for me. It's user interface is atrocious. So many mouse clicks and various pages needed for rather simple things. It's the "Linux" of software synths in my opinion. So powerful and capable yet ultimately completely uninspiring.

Actually, even though I like Falcon's GUI in many respects and do find it inspiring, there are certain things which are ridiculous. E.g., the method for adding FX to the chainer is ludicrous, having to find the chainer in the tree view etc..

[machinesworking]

Maybe just maybe, there are huge workstation like soft synths that can "do anything" like Falcon, Zebra, Omnisphere etc. and specialty synths like Monark, OB-Xtreme, Knifonium, FM8, virtually 95% of Arturia's line up, that are about a single hardware emulation or specific type of sound.

And maybe 99% of the time you wouldn't have the first clue which you were hearing.

Knifonium, Plasmonic, FM8 etc. are all specifically designed to do a few types of synthesis well, this has to count as one of the most idiotic holes you've dug for yourself. There has always been and always will be reasons to design a synth to be good at physical modeling for instance, without the need to give it great subtractive capabilities. Every FM synth almost is also not a good physical modeling synth, and almost no synth not designed specifically for it is a good granular synth. This list is endless. Your logic is such in this thread that you shouldn't be using multiple synths at all, you should find "the one" and be done.

I mean this is such a stupid argument that I would think you're trolling. I'm not kidding, BX Oberhausen is pretty cool, why on earth would you buy OB-Xtreme if you already own an OB clone? and how are you getting additive, FM and granular synthesis out of it? I'm not saying that there aren't massive areas where various types of synthesis have crossover, but the argument that synths somehow don't have strong and weak points depending on modules used is ridiculous.

A configuration of modules that make up most all synths, have a sound, some areas are stronger than others given that configuration. You can argue against this, but to be fair then you would only own one or two synths then, that's all you would ever need. You don't, you're argument is hypocritical, and you're essentially arguing for arguments sake here.

[whassup]

For me, a weighty sound is most important. I’ll find a way to get around a GUI if the the synth overall is pleasing to my ears (except Massive X & Vital). Im more of VA kind of a guy.

Ever tried Diva?

[Saukar30]

For me, a weighty sound is most important. I’ll find a way to get around a GUI if the the synth overall is pleasing to my ears (except Massive X & Vital). Im more of VA kind of a guy.

Ever tried Diva?

I did a long time ago with a weaker computer. Haven’t tried it recently. Compared to everything else it may be just be decent. I was actually thinking about Zebra