PG-8X (2.0) released

[theviirus]

Dead on Mac (for now) is a great reason not to go to Mac, which I also have, thank you.

Go check the macOS ventura thread; it’s not dead, it’s pretty alive, I use it often, and jamcat has it running now too.

(and honestly, i’m shocked the AU has been an issue for people. I’ve been using it snag free for maybe 5 or more years?!)

[jamcat]

Yes, I was able to get the AU to load on my Mac finally, which I documented on the  macOS Ventura thread. But, it’s dependent on Rosetta2, which doesn’t lend it much long term security.

It also means projects with it can’t be cross-platform, since Windows needs the VST2 version, while native Apple Silicon needs the AU version to load in Rosetta2. And development and support is still dead, even if it can still be used for now.

[theviirus]

... while native Apple Silicon needs the AU version to load in Rosetta2.

This is a huge point of confusion for me because I'm starting to see that my understanding of whats going on with Rosetta differs from what other users describe and the way it has worked for me for almost two years. It could be Apple's messaging but I feel like the collective user (not engineer) understanding of what Rosetta does, where/when/how/why it runs just isn't very clear.

Heres my understanding. Rosetta doesn't run at all when your host is running in native mode. All rosetta is doing when you open your host with rosetta to validate plugins is update a list of what plugins are visible to the host ...which then carries over when your re-open that same host in native. (I won't even pretend to understand what validating the plugin entails) If the plugin absolutely can't run in native, it won't run in your native host even if you validated it with your host in rosetta. My friend's example: Roland Jupiter 4 can be reset/rescan/run with logic in rosetta but will crash logic in native if you try to use it.

My example? Softube Console 1. Took a while for C1 to run properly under native, but it works. Previously, running the C1 onscreen display app in rosetta while the host is running native...doesn't work. Running C1 OSD in native with Logic in rosetta also doesn't work. In both cases, the controller and the OSD could not communicate with logic. Logic could open the AU plugin in rosetta and native, but Logic would only recognize controller input when Logic and Console 1 we're BOTH running under rosetta.

If rosetta is always running, why does Logic native (or any host in native) not see the plugins that need the "rosetta host" method I described and work its magic there?? Why wasn't logic native using rosetta to talk to console 1? This shell/bridge was an automatic function when Logic 9 had the 32-bit bridge for the 64-bit version of Logic. Logic should be calling rosetta functions when the plugin requires rosetta to run...but, again, this doesn't seem to be what happens at all.

This leads me to the following conclusion; If your host is running in native, rosetta isn't running at all...and any plugins you're using are being run as if they've been updated for native or not. They might function properly; they might not. Here's to compatibility. And if they're being run as native, not crashing, or causing noticeable performance issues like memory leaks or sample rate issues or GUI issues...they are functionally running as native plugins because no rosetta layer functions are being utilized.

I could be wrong. I am not a software engineer. It would be great if someone familiar with the relevant Apple SDKs chimed in to clarify what the f**k is going on because it seems there are lots of opinions on why stuff works/doesn't work. And again, the topic at hand is the PG8X audio unit which does function right now and has been functioning for the last several years.

[aMUSEd]

It's able to run in Logic and other AU hosts like Live even if they are running in Native because it's using the AUHostingCompatibilityService - so essentially it is being wrapped using Rosetta 2, it is not running natively (how could it?).

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... -Live-11-1

[jamcat]

... while native Apple Silicon needs the AU version to load in Rosetta2.

This is a huge point of confusion for me because I'm starting to see that my understanding of whats going on with Rosetta differs from what other users describe and the way it has worked for me for almost two years. It could be Apple's messaging but I feel like the collective user (not engineer) understanding of what Rosetta does, where/when/how/why it runs just isn't very clear.

So this is how Rosetta2 works:

Any Intel coded software is translated on the fly to Apple Silicon assembly code at load. Rosetta2 works different than Rosetta1 in that it is not an emulation layer, but an actual recompiler. It reads the Intel assembly code and turns it into Apple Silicon assembly code. It stores this somewhere, because the next time you run the program, it loads right away.

There are some Intel instructions which have no Apple Silicon equivalent. Most of this seems to be related to graphics and AVX2. If the Intel code can't be translated, the software will crash or not load, or what have you. Just because it shows up or loads doesn't necessarily mean it's actually compatible.

Audio Units plugins are translated by Rosetta2 via AUHostingCompatibilityService, so Intel AU plugins will load in any naive Apple Silicon AU host, but Intel VST3 plugins won't.

The problem I had with the PG-8X AU plugin not showing up had to do with my AudioUnitCache not being updated when I manually copied the plugin to my Plug-Ins > Components folder. It was unrelated to Rosetta2. I fixed it by deleting the old cache and rebooting.

[theviirus]

... AUHostingCompatibilityService ...

So this is how Rosetta2 works: ...

This all makes so much more sense now. Thanks yall.

[Samuel_S]

MKS-70 should be way easier to emulate then, since it doesn't take up that much space.

A rackmount emulation would be awesome, theres not many of them out there

[mholloway]

so is it confirmed that this thing is officially abandonware? those rumors of someone else 'taking it over' never amounted to anything, right?

I know it technically can work on current systems, but that's not gonna last long, I'd wager.

This is one of my most used synths. I use it far more than many synths I paid hundreds of dollars for. It just...works. I love it. Really wish someone would take it over and get it off life support.

[cyberheater]

so is it confirmed that this thing is officially abandonware? those rumors of someone else 'taking it over' never amounted to anything, right?

I know it technically can work on current systems, but that's not gonna last long, I'd wager.

This is one of my most used synths. I use it far more than many synths I paid hundreds of dollars for. It just...works. I love it. Really wish someone would take it over and get it off life support.

Or the dev just stick the code up on GitHub so anyone can give it a go.

[Mutant]

so is it confirmed that this thing is officially abandonware? those rumors of someone else 'taking it over' never amounted to anything, right?

I know it technically can work on current systems, but that's not gonna last long, I'd wager.

This is one of my most used synths. I use it far more than many synths I paid hundreds of dollars for. It just...works. I love it. Really wish someone would take it over and get it off life support.

A PC capable of running this freebie VSTi and a few thousands more will cost you about 50$.
Alternatively:
https://www.webaudiomodules.org/wamsynths/obxd

[kylie]

so is it confirmed that this thing is officially abandonware? those rumors of someone else 'taking it over' never amounted to anything, right?

The website is still up, he seems to be on fbook (which I refuse to check), so I wonder if anyone reading or contibuting to this thread has ever tried to contact him and just ask.. ?!

[muki]

The website is still up, he seems to be on fbook (which I refuse to check), so I wonder if anyone reading or contibuting to this thread has ever tried to contact him and just ask.. ?!

iirc yes - ED did (a few posting back in this thread...)

[mholloway]

Yeah the contacting him route has been plumbed already, and nothing came of it other than Martin was 'considering what to do next...' That was a couple years ago at this point, I believe, so i read this as: Abandonware.

Buying a 50 dollar PC to run freebie VSTs is not a solution, to the [MOD EDIT]person[/MOD EDIT] who thought that was a helpful comment. I need this thing working in my regular workstation along with all my other gear. Nor can a Roland JX-8P emulation be meaningfully replaced by an Oberheim OB-X emulation. Totally different synths (though I do quite like OB-Xd, it's great, but it can't do a lot of what the PG-8x can do).

[martin_l]

Just an update on the PG-8X development. First of all, sorry that I have been mainly absent for a long time. I changed job, moved to a different country, had to get into my new job, which already takes much of my time, so I had very little time to look into the development of the PG-8X.

Now, that things finally have settled a bit, I started investigating the options again. I looked into JUCE and also iPlug2. From what I can see. JUCE would mean basically a complete rewrite of large parts of the plugin, at least the complete GUI. So, a few weeks ago, I started porting to iPlug2. The framework also has changed significantly from iPlug/WDL-OL, which I used for the PG-8X, and also there, I introduced many modofications of the framework, which are no longer compatible with iPlug2.

The current status is that the code compiles with iPlug2 as a standalone app, but the GUI is not yet functional. I am in contact with Oli Larkin and hope that I can resolve the issues soon.

Cheers,
Martin

[phreaque]

Thanks Martin for the update, iPlug2 is good alternative.
Really good to know about this progress & wish all best to you.