Perpetual frustration and lack of skills

[TW1306]

I've been attempting to produce for about 8 years now, but it's been about 2 1/2 years since the last full-length track I finished, and since then I've not been able to make anything even at that half-decent level, let alone to the professional standard I've been aiming for. It's gotten to the point where I can barely even listen to music casually anymore, the frustration at not being able to achieve that level myself is just too overwhelming.

I've been asking around on forums (including here) and people have been very helpful, but much of the advice I've been given assumes I actually know how to put it into practice; I just do not have the skills and knowledge to get to where I want to be.

How do people deal with this? I know 'take a break' will probably be the biggest suggestion but I've taken plenty of breaks in that 8 year period and every time I've come back to the same problem. I love doing this, listening to and making music are my biggest passions, but I really don't want to give up either of them.

[BertKoor]

I re-read your very first post here (basically the same subject) and browsed through your SoundCloud stuff.

I'm a bit confused... you do only remixes? It's not my style, I'm far too old, I don't know the originals. What percentage is yours and what is original?

Have you ever tried (re)creating something from scratch? Me thinks that's the only way to improve your technique.


And there is another option. Analogy: I really enjoy well-made food. And although I can cook a decent dinner, I know I'm not skilled or talented enough to measure up to really good cooks. What to do? I still cook my own dinner, and occasionally for friends. But I know my place, I have accepted there is a limit to my skill & talents.

[JockMcRonan]

outta here

[TW1306]

I'm a bit confused... you do only remixes? It's not my style, I'm far too old, I don't know the originals. What percentage is yours and what is original?

I don't know where you got that idea from, there's remixes and originals on my Soundcloud page (and everywhere else I upload too). I don't focus on one over the other, I just do whatever I'm inspired to at the time.

Have you ever tried (re)creating something from scratch? Me thinks that's the only way to improve your technique.

Plenty of times, I've even sampled drum hits and basses and FX directly out of existing tracks, and nothing I can put together comes close to it.

Keep your expectations nice and low, then drop them a bit further until you stop being disappointed in your lack of achievements.

That would still require me being able to make anything; like I said it's been 2 1/2 years since I was able to put together a full-length track regardless of quality.

[vurt]

do you play an instrument?

[BertKoor]

I'm a bit confused... you do only remixes?

I don't know where you got that idea from, there's remixes and originals on my Soundcloud page (and everywhere else I upload too).

I stated it as a question, not as a conclusion. Is this your soundcloud?

Code: Select all

https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound

nothing I can put together comes close to it.

There's also this psychological phenomena: we judge ourselves much harder than others. It's the main cause for Impostor Syndrome.

[TW1306]

I stated it as a question, not as a conclusion. Is this your soundcloud?

Code: Select all

https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound

Yes, that's mine, sorry for the assumption there.

There's also this psychological phenomena: we judge ourselves much harder than others. It's the main cause for Imposter Syndrome.

I've heard plenty of it, but there is absolutely a very obvious difference between anything put out on a label during the time and anything I've made.

do you play an instrument?

I played trumpet for about 8-9 years, before I started producing. I dropped it because I was starting exams and couldn't find the time or energy to continue practicing on top of revision and other things.

[vurt]

exams over?
pick it up again. having the freedom to just play when the production side isn't flowing, it's a great way to still achieve something musical

[BertKoor]

Could you share an original track then please?
I'll then judge whether your home-cooked food is up to standards to serve in a restaurant or not
(which as I understand essentially is what you aim for. Whether that is a realistic goal, I can't judge)

[TW1306]

exams over?
pick it up again. having the freedom to just play when the production side isn't flowing, it's a great way to still achieve something musical

That was about 8 years ago and I've only had more to do since; I'm at university now and don't have the time or space to pick it up again unfortunately.

Could you share an original track then please?
I'll then judge whether your home-cooked food is up to standards to serve in a restaurant or not
(which as I understand essentially is what you aim for. Whether that is a realistic goal, I can't judge)

It's been even longer since I finished an original track; it's definitely not representative of what I can achieve at the moment (which is a few barebones drafts that end up going nowhere)

[Etienne1973]

I've been attempting to produce for about 8 years now, ...
... but I've taken plenty of breaks in that 8 year period and every time I've come back to the same problem. I love doing this, listening to and making music are my biggest passions, but I really don't want to give up either of them.

8 years making music in any genre is nothing. Not enough time IMO to reach the level you're aiming at in your head. Good news: If music is your passion then chances are good it's for a whole lifetime. Relax. Plus don't doubt your potential.

[TW1306]

8 years making music in any genre is nothing. Not enough time IMO to reach the level you're aiming at in your head.

I don't want to sound rude but did it really take that long for producers to get to that level back in the 90s/early 2000s? Armin created Blue Fear when he was 19/20 iirc, and there's probably plenty of other 'classic' tracks that weren't made off the back of years of experience. At this point I feel I could probably spend another 20 years working on things without making any progress, because I just do not have the skills or knowledge that would help me make anything authentic, nor do I know how to learn them - I'm basically going round in circles.

[gaggle of hermits]

you're making two critical assumptions here:

1) everyone is the same and also that they got that level of experience without maybe focusing almost entirely on music instead of squeezing it in alongside other activities

2) the more important one: survivor bias. the famous stuff from an earlier period is famous for a reason. maybe you should go and get some old compilation cds from those days: there was a ton of cookie-cutter filler mixed in there.

you're big problem is aspiring to be among the best of a genre rather than starting off with a more reasonable target: getting at least as adept as one of the also-rans.

however, you'd be better off by not trying to emulate this earlier stuff in every detail but instead taking them as inspiration for your own stuff and accept there will be a difference in the sound. by continually comparing you're not giving yourself permission to fail and learn from the mistakes. all you're getting is the focus on the mistakes. forget about "authentic", it's not doing you any good.

i'd also say you're way too obsessed with surface details like eq curves and not dealing with the important stuff like arrangement and interplay between instruments. i remember a carl craig interview from back in the day where he said he'd work to get a groove on without the kick – if it worked like that, it would kick with the kick, so to speak. ok different genre, but you've got to think about the dance factor in anything like this. it doesn't have to sound like a finished track but unless there's some underlying groove it's not going to work much better when it's gone through an entire round of turd polishing.

[vurt]

8 years making music in any genre is nothing. Not enough time IMO to reach the level you're aiming at in your head.

I don't want to sound rude but did it really take that long for producers to get to that level back in the 90s/early 2000s? Armin created Blue Fear when he was 19/20 iirc, and there's probably plenty of other 'classic' tracks that weren't made off the back of years of experience. At this point I feel I could probably spend another 20 years working on things without making any progress, because I just do not have the skills or knowledge that would help me make anything authentic, nor do I know how to learn them - I'm basically going round in circles.

what other qualifications does armin have?
you're a similar age to armin, when he did the track you mentioned above.
was he busy at school, getting top marks or coasting and low grades?

i had a friend at school (still have him) and he rarely showed up, he was hanging around at a local practice venue most of the time, hounding guitarists for tips, learning licks and even basic guitar tech support jobs.
when we finished school, i was still strumming basic chords he was working as a session guitarist in london.

many years later, he had an accident, nerve damage, can't play guitar no more. now works in a local shop.

we make choices in our lives, that mean other things don't get the attention they need for us to be "world class"

i wanted a family, so for me at that age, looking for something more homey was right and music as a hobby, with no goals other than to make some noise sometimes
so i worked at school and got an apprenticeship afterwards.
my friend wanted to be on records so for him school was pointless.

[TW1306]

2) the more important one: survivor bias. the famous stuff from an earlier period is famous for a reason. maybe you should go and get some old compilation cds from those days: there was a ton of cookie-cutter filler mixed in there.

you're big problem is aspiring to be among the best of a genre rather than starting off with a more reasonable target: getting at least as adept as one of the also-rans.

I do listen to a lot of mixes/compilations from that time and even though there are plenty of tracks aren't as well-known, they're still 'good' (for want of a better word). It's not that I'm aiming to be among the best right now, I'm really just trying to make something that sounds passable (and then perhaps build from there), but even that target is still out of reach at the moment.

i'd also say you're way too obsessed with surface details like eq curves and not dealing with the important stuff like arrangement and interplay between instruments.

I'm honestly not sure if I'm explaining my issues properly, it's somewhat difficult to articulate exactly what I'm struggling with, but getting that 'groove' is part of the problem; with basses for example, I'm unable to create anything that sounds good and meshes with a kick drum, regardless of if I add EQ/FX or not.