Free DAW with UNDO/REDO function that applies to Volume, Panning AND Plugin Settings?

[tmaworks]

*EDIT- After spending some time with Soundbridge just now, I have discovered that it does INDEED have a FANTASTIC UNDO/ REDO function that covers all parameters that I can observe -It lists them, too... Vol, Panning, Plugin Parameters -to an alarming degree. So, if you're interested in A free DAW that seems to be unlimited and have a fantastic UNDO/REDO funtion I might recommend trying out Soundbridge. It's a little whacky to use and I'm not quite sure how the devs came to some of the conclusions they did, but it's free and, yeah... You can figure out the rest...
Read on if you care to & please feel free to make suggestions on other DAWS. Thnx!

So, I'll try and make this as short as possible and include the DAWS I've used so as to save ya'll the trouble -I'm currently using a combination of Reaper and Waveform. I would be using Waveform EXCLUSIVELY, but their undo/ redo function doesn't apply to to volume, panning or plugin parameters -Which just doesn't work for me and my mixing style. So, my workflow has been: record in Reaper, edit and all that in Waveform, and back to Reaper for final mixing (cuz of the undo/ redo abilities -that's literally it)...

I'd like to eliminate the need for Reaper altogether, so I'm trying to find a free daw which has an undo/ redo function like Reapers, which applies to volume, panning and plugin parameters.

Stuff I've tried:

Cakewalk -Makes both of my laptops crash -so, no-no
Studio One Free -Lost 2 sessions mysteriously -poof into thin air -so that's a no-no (no 3rd party vst's in their, either)
Soundbridge -Strangely convoluted and non-user friendly. They're trying too hard
Podium -Absolutely BEAUTIFUL user friendly DAW, but undo/ redo functions don't apply to plugins. They DO apply to vol and pan changes though, so that's cool. Thinking about working more in that DAW...
Lmms -Nope
Ardour -Pretty tough to navigate. I couldn't even figure out how to load up a plugin to see...
Mixcraft -Undo function does not apply to plugin parameters
Cubase -Just downloaded it. That one is fine, but even the $99 version is limited to 48 audio tracks and 45 plugins. A little strange for a paid DAW -When you're tracking with 14 microphones at a time, that track count goes up QUICK- Next version up is considerably more in cost... If I was gonna do that, I'd just buckle down and maybe try and learn Soundbridge...
And of course Waveform (absolutely beautiful daw for editing, bussing, automation, etc. but super lousy undo function. Also, people are complaining about the engine... I don't know what that's about yet, but I have had some issues with stability on my older laptop...) and Reaper (Yeah, I know how powerful it is -Also feels like trying to run a spaceship to me -No thanks.)

So, if I can just find a free DAW with a good undo/ redo function, then I could track and edit in Waveform and mix in that DAW -That's literally all I need -Is that undo/ redo function...

I don't get on with Reaper -God bless you all who are going to say "just learn Reaper, bra..." No thanks.

Thank you for your time.

[GaryG]

I'd probably consider checking your system over if so many DAWs seem unstable. Though ironically, I find the worst for random crashes by far is Waveform...

I think you've covered all the free options so I'd get learning Soundbridge or admit recording 14 mics is maybe getting into pro-level needs and ponying up for a full version of Cubase.

[Dogbert]

Try to fix the issues on your laptops. Cakewalk is the best free DAW you will find, and the only one that is fully featured and has no limitations of any sort.

And if you want to spend $99, Studio One Artist is a much better option than Cubase Elements. SO Artist has unlimited tracks/busses, and I can confirm it has Undo/Redo for everything.

[tmaworks]

Try to fix the issues on your laptops. Cakewalk is the best free DAW you will find, and the only one that is fully featured and has no limitations of any sort.

And if you want to spend $99, Studio One Artist is a much better option than Cubase Elements. SO Artist has unlimited tracks/busses, and I can confirm it has Undo/Redo for everything.

Thank you so much!~

-To your knowledge, does Cakewalk's undo/ redo function apply to plugin parameters??

Thanks.

[tmaworks]

I'd probably consider checking your system over if so many DAWs seem unstable. Though ironically, I find the worst for random crashes by far is Waveform...

I think you've covered all the free options so I'd get learning Soundbridge or admit recording 14 mics is maybe getting into pro-level needs and ponying up for a full version of Cubase.

Thank you so much! Another posted just suggested that I look into improving my system. Might have to look into that. I'm bubbling over my 4 gigs of ram and my tiny, pea-sized processor that they don't make anymore...

Strangely Reaper has no problems with either of those machine, but yeah. I've already concluded Reaper's not for me as a standalone Daw...

Thanks again for your input.

[Dogbert]

Testing Cakewalk right now.

It's weird, aparently Cakewalk doesn't include volume, panning and plugin settings in the history list, I don't know if it can be modified in the advanced preferences.

[tmaworks]

Testing Cakewalk right now.

It's weird, aparently Cakewalk doesn't include volume, panning and plugin settings in the history list, I don't know if it can be modified in the advanced preferences.

Hmm...

It's not super important to me, actually, that those things are included in a list. If the undo and redo covers those things than it's good enough for me...

I miiight take another look at Soundbridge, but I've tried 2 or 3 times so far and it's just funky to me man -Not nearly as bad as Reaper, but still pretty dark funky. Like, I don't know how to do anything in it, yet...

My Reaper Waveform combo is fine, but ya know. Would always be nice to have one home... Podium is suuuper sweet in my opinion -I don't need my DAW world to be super fancy. If only it's undo feature covered plugin parameters. I guess it's not the end of the world -Just really nice to have. Luxury, really...

[GaryG]

I'm bubbling over my 4 gigs of ram and my tiny, pea-sized processor that they don't make anymore...

Strangely Reaper has no problems with either of those machine, but yeah. I've already concluded Reaper's not for me as a standalone Daw...

4GB isn't a lot nowadays... Some say 16GB is the minimum though I tootle along ok with 8GB currently, fairly modest projects though.

Not that strange, Reaper was built for effiency from the start, why it tends to use stock dialogues etc rather than fancy graphics. A decade ago I was deciding between Reaper and Studio One and the latter killed the laptop I had at the time whereas Reaper just flew.

But, I get it, it's not for you.

[ulrichburke]

Dear GaryG.

If you want, I've got a copy of Sonar you can try. Yup, I know it BECAME Cakewalk but I've never TRIED the Cakewalk version so I dunno what they did to it along the way. It's a bit like Logic. Logic USED to be a PC Only program before Apple bought it and did loads to it along the way - it used to be more like PC Reaper.

If you don't mind notation I've got Quick Score Elite Level 2 which is the one I use all the time. It's SLIGHTLY funky - it's pure notation and it loves multitimbral VSTs. You get 8 slots. If the VST is multitimbral, that's 8 x 16 = 126 (and the out channel, so 127 in all.) If they're all monotimbral, then 8. But you can use Chainer or Carla to get round that - and JBRIDGE to get round it being officially 32-bit only. Just started using JBRIDGE and love the way it talks you through how to use it!

Get in touch if you want to use either of those and I'll put them up for you - no, Mods, they're not pirates, they're just old!

Yours respectfully

Chris.

[kperry]

Testing Cakewalk right now.

It's weird, aparently Cakewalk doesn't include volume, panning and plugin settings in the history list, I don't know if it can be modified in the advanced preferences.

It does one level of undo per volume/pan/gain fader (right click and you get a revert to) and that's outside the undo list.

[tmaworks]

I'm bubbling over my 4 gigs of ram and my tiny, pea-sized processor that they don't make anymore...

Strangely Reaper has no problems with either of those machine, but yeah. I've already concluded Reaper's not for me as a standalone Daw...

4GB isn't a lot nowadays... Some say 16GB is the minimum though I tootle along ok with 8GB currently, fairly modest projects though.

Not that strange, Reaper was built for effiency from the start, why it tends to use stock dialogues etc rather than fancy graphics. A decade ago I was deciding between Reaper and Studio One and the latter killed the laptop I had at the time whereas Reaper just flew.

But, I get it, it's not for you.

I used the free version of Studio One and I had two sessions automatically "poof gone" right in front of my eyes. Got a message that said "your files were found to not be valid at this time" or something -Strangely enough, it was when I picked up my laptop to take it to the other room. Found that strange. So, yeah -NO on Studio One for me...

That's the thing with Reaper man -It DOES_FLY. But, golly -It's always something with that DAW for me, man. For example:

I make all my click tracks and do all my pre-production in Audacity. It has a FANTASTICLY malleable click track feature that I really enjoy using. Haven't seen any other DAW that does it the way Audacity does. It works really well for me because my songs change tempo a lot and I can switch it up really easy in there. Anyway...

When I'm done with setting up my clicks, I then fly those into whatever DAW I'm using and get to tracking. Well, when i went to Reaper's metronome to copy the clicks a la beat-mapping, Reapers clicks didn't line up with the clicks I flew in from Audacity. So, I went over to the r/Reaper sub and asked about it -Now, i'm getting suggestions like "Make sure your time codes are set to whatever whatever in your repository..." -What?? I loaded up those same clicks into WAVEFORM, made the beatmap and everything lined up perfectly -Perfect transitions, Every click right on the beat. I mean, it's a no brainer for me... And that seems to be the common theme with me and Reaper -Something like this is always happening...

Also, Have you ever used Track mode in Reaper?? Golly gee. It's a nightmare -And I can't figure out how to get out of it... Ha! If I want to separate those tracks, I've got to go to something called "explode takes", or something -AND THEN -it only explodes the little segments that you have set with the lines -it doesn't just explode the whole take/ clip. Lord have mercy... I mean, I get it -I get the efficiency line that Reaper is going for and yeah for some people it works. Like, I get that. But, it doesn't work for me. I don't need the DAW to do every little thing for me -In fact, it messes with me...

I could go on and on about Reaper, but I don't really wanna get flamed more than i already do for my opinions on it.

Funny thing is that I'm probably going to buy it because A: I'm used to tracking in it and with as many mics as I use (drum kit 14 mics or so) I like the stability (also, the phase invert button on each track is nice for getting setup. I really enjoy the volume meters on the "Classic" theme as well. I'm very used to them. Quite nice...) -But, that's just STRAIGHT tracking -No punching in, no editing, and no funny stuff... B: I got really used to doing basic mixing tasks in it -I like the way the plugin window opens on each track. The bridge is nice, the plugin search feature is nice, the undo/ redo feature is GREAT...

At the end of the day, Reaper does have it's endearing qualities, but I basically use my DAW as a tape machine. I just have no need for all of the "edit orcha whale sounds all from the same clip and push ctrl "L" to export all 10 from the same clip point at ONE TIME!!!" nonsense. Not to mention I can do without the chaotic, complex menus, the non-sensical lingo, the lengthy and weird ctrl+ commands, the dragging my mouse by accident and having 16 different things happen at once, and the laborious... Okay, I'm done... Lol!! -Just give me something that's good and easy and won't crash and I don't really care...

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Haha!

[GaryG]

Yeah, buy Reaper.



I'm a fairly simple user myself and I just found it worked for what I wanted to do with the option of trickier stuff if I wanted. Don't have to worry about audio or midi tracks, just slap everything together, no weird routing if I want to stack midi effects or vocoders etc. But it has it's quirks; I wanted to split some vinyl rips to individual tracks, found the dynamic split way too sensitive and then exporting the individual regions involved using the Render Matrix which I didn't even know existed up to that point. Instead, chucked them in Wavosaur (free audio editor), split and exported in minutes (though then used Reapers batch processing to convert them to MP3 perversely )

[tmaworks]

I appreciate your story!

I'm gonna check out this "Wavosaur"!

Thanks!!

-yeah, you know... Sometimes you find that you like the way one DAW does one thing and another daw does another thing. Just the way it goes...

Kudos to anyone who does everything all in one!

I'm kinda stoked on Soundbridge at the moment -it does one or two things that I consider kinda "buggy" and the forum doesn't seem to be active, at all -But, it is free and sleek and unlimited and the undo/ redo feature is FANTASTIC -Maybe even better than Reaper's...

Gonna have to see what it can really do for tracking today -Gonna have to push Waveform for tracking, too. haven't given waveform a serious "go" for hardcore multi-tracking yet (multiple takes of many mics...)

[GaryG]

Wavosaur is cool, but 'just' a simple stereo audio editor. It does a few things well but probably has fallen way behind Audacity so if that's what you're familiar with... Actually the last thing I split (a live show) I did in Audacity, getting the hang of adding labels, exporting multiples etc. And can export in the format I want, dont have to then convert in Reaper later.

[tmaworks]

Wavosaur is cool, but 'just' a simple stereo audio editor. It does a few things well but probably has fallen way behind Audacity so if that's what you're familiar with... Actually the last thing I split (a live show) I did in Audacity, getting the hang of adding labels, exporting multiples etc. And can export in the format I want, dont have to then convert in Reaper later.

Right, thanks!!

Yeah -Love Audacity. Just for pre-pro stuff, though...

I looked up some vids on waveosaur -Don't think I'll be downloading it anytime soon -Simply because I don't really see a need for it?? Couldn't really find any quality tutorials on it...