I don't want to damage my ears

[SomethingSomeone]

Last night I was playing with a song and noticed, even at lower volume, the kick (only when solo'd) did something to my ears that was unpleasant. It felt like an odd pulse that could possibly damage my ears or give me a migraine. Oddly though, when all other tracks were brought back into the mix, this effect was not noticed.

So I'm beginning to wonder, because I've noticed this before when soloing tracks, how some frequencies or pulses might be agitating our hearing, but when blending with the rest of the sounds in the song, we aren't noticing it, yet the effect is still happening and possibly causing damage.

I did a little search and downloaded Ice9 https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ice9-a ... erus-audio

I'm assuming I stick this in the master track and have it activated for every project. It has a what looks like limiter setting the bottom left, the default is set to 0.2db.

I guess I'm just wondering what actual safe levels are and if there are pulses and frequencies in ranges we can't necessarily perceive yet still can cause damage. I have sensitive hearing already, so I generally mix at lower volumes than most people would. It bothers me that a solo track would effect my ears unpleasantly, yet when blended with the rest of the tracks it disappears and all sounds fine.

Is it sensible to also have some other kind of limiter on the master track that would be default set for every project to block certain frequencies? Maybe it would make sense to have an eq high cut on the master right from the start? Is it also lower pulsing frequencies that can cause hearing loss?

I mix with headphones and get a little trigger anxious about having loud bursts and bangs happening in my ears.

What are safe frequencies and listening levels and are there pulses we are not hearing yet can damage hearing?

Someone in another thread posted this...

""... 8-hr. exposure limits range from 136 dB at a low frequency of 1 Hz to 123
dB at the upper end of the infrasonic range (20hz)"

"Exposure limits to airborne ultrasound have been recommended by a number of national and international organizations... The criteria are similar, typically limiting exposures to 110dB SPL for the frequencies at and above 20khz"

[plexuss]

Everyone's physiology and psychology is different and so it's difficult to provide general guidelines. The ICE tool will just cut the audio if it peaks over a set threshold. Nugen SigMod also has this feature in it's tool set. I would recommend mixing at a medium pleasing level where a spontaneous loud sound is not going to pop your brain or your gear. One professional guideline is, at the listening point, the sound level should average around 80 dB on a sound level meter, C-weighted, slow.

[andymcbain]

I used to mix electronic music loud in a pair of Sennheiser HD650s. I always found "pure tone" sounds like kicks, sines, unfiltered saw waves would send my ears a bit funny. If anyone has any audiology knowledge into why this might be, I'd be curious to hear it. All I was ever told was sustained high SPLs would damage hearing, rather than particular frequencies.

I don't think there's really any way around this other than the usual guidelines - mix quietly, only turn up the headphones loud for brief periods when you really need them, and take regular breaks. Trust your ears on this - if it's painful, turn it down - or take an extended break.

[briefcasemanx]

My ears also do a weird thing with transients even at low volumes, like a compression or something.

[SomethingSomeone]

One professional guideline is, at the listening point, the sound level should average around 80 dB on a sound level meter, C-weighted, slow.

Is there a plugin or some way in the daw to know what sound level I am listening at? I searched sound level plugins and everything that comes up is for mastering. I'm just curious to know what the general level I generally listen to everything at actually is and how much more I could go "safely".

[SomethingSomeone]

I downloaded this guy. Not really sure entirely what I'm looking at but I can set it to my fiio interface for my headphones and it reads it instantly.

[plexuss]

One professional guideline is, at the listening point, the sound level should average around 80 dB on a sound level meter, C-weighted, slow.

Is there a plugin or some way in the daw to know what sound level I am listening at? I searched sound level plugins and everything that comes up is for mastering. I'm just curious to know what the general level I generally listen to everything at actually is and how much more I could go "safely".

Not in this case. The 80dB reference was to the level of the audio at the listneing point from whatever your are monitoring from. This is about measuring the sound pressure level at the listening point with an SPL meter. I use an app on iphone.

The meter you found is to measure loudness of the audio but its in relation to the level of the audio in the mix or master. That is one level to worry about. The other, pertaining to your hearing, is the level you listen at. Basically just listen as low a level as you are comfortable with and don't keep turning it up. A faction of audio engineers feel that listening at around 80dB SPL gives a good balance between loudness and safty. If you can work at a lower loudness level, do so, the less strain on the ears the better.

I should mention, on my system (mac) I use an app called SoundSource which takes over the system audio. With it, I can put plugins on the main system audio output. Global plugins. I use this with Sonarworks which I use to calibrate my monitors - the calibration correction software needs to be on the main output. I also put a peak limiter on it as well as the last processor. I set it to catch any peaks and prevent clipping. This really helps to prevent dangerous noises from getting through and may be an approach you may want to consider.

[SomethingSomeone]

Man my brain is so weak for understanding this stuff. I'm going to take your advice and just chill out about it and keep listening and mixing at generally low volume levels. I already intentionally do not keep turning up the volume when mixing for long periods because I know this is something we tend to do. Thanks for the help

[Nameerf]

Audiothing's SR-88 does this to my ears! I don't know why and I'm not knocking the plugin ( I love it!) But even at quite low volumes I get that weird pumping, ear popping effect..

[gaf_thit]

Audiothing's SR-88 does this to my ears! I don't know why and I'm not knocking the plugin ( I love it!) But even at quite low volumes I get that weird pumping, ear popping effect..

I get that feeling often when I hear music where there is that pumping effect due to heavy-handed use of ducking and compression(if it is that, not sure). Plop plop plop.

[plexuss]

I called up AT SR-88 and I think I hear what you are refering to. In these instances I think whats happening is a high energy low frequency component of the transient that is pushing a lot of air for a short duration. This would cause a quick push of your ear drum which might be uncomfortable. an HPF with a low cutoff and compression would help. to me, if this is the case, this would be an artifact that would need to be corrected. the fact that you are sensitive to it is a good thing because it will enable you to more easily correct/remove it. I did try an HPF with a cutoff around 30Hz 18dB/oct slope and some compression with fast attack and it did help get rid of that pumping effect.

[subterfuge]

Is there a plugin or some way in the daw to know what sound level I am listening at?

Forget any sound level plugins inside computers, unless they are specifically made for that use and used together with appropriate external measurement gear. In and of itself they cannot tell at what level you are actually listening. Same goes naturally for all level meters in DAWs etc.

It is possible to calibrate your whole audio/DAW system to specific monitoring levels. With calibrated system, as long as you keep required settings at preset (measured) values, you are in the right ballpark sound level wise.

However, extra problem here is the use of headphones. You cannot use regular measurement systems for checking levels inside your ear canals and anything outside doesn't tell exactly how your ears handle the sound piped into them from the earpads. Measuring straight from the earpads might give some clue, but I certainly wouldn't count that totally accurate nor reliable method.

Whole other thing is that the commonly given sound level guidelines are varied and not always good enough or followed anyway. Common workplaces with continuous noise levels over 80 dB should offer hearing protection and if over 85 dB, should require (force) their usage. Musicians and music lovers are often different animals though and think their ears can take anything and everything. Monitoring levels over 80 dB are for the loudest moments, not the continuous levels to work at. Even just 77 dB is often fine, especially in small places. That with the speakers, not headphones.

Hearing protection should basically be used in almost every concert, band practise etc. It's of course not cool, so commonly neglected. The habit of some people blasting their headphones (and car audio) obscurely loud will produce new hearing loss generations even earlier than before.

Kudos for the OP trying to care for hearing. Avoid pain, keep regular breaks.

[Unaspected]

My general working method is not to use headphones other than when tracking or to check the sub end. Personal choice though my hearing is exceptional and I've been careful to protect it. When I don headphones for myself then I have levels very low - probably lower than my monitors - which I also keep at sensible levels; nowhere near anything anyone would call loud.

Further advice is if you start exploring DSP to build your own devices, don't use earphones or anything close to your ears. It should go without saying that your monitor levels should be at zero until you actually need to hear something.

Oh and when I'm tracking drums, I always request that the drummer does not hit any of his kit when I enter the live room. Getting some professional attenuating ear plugs also helps if you are attending live gigs, nightclubs and such.

[i need Help]

I already intentionally do not keep turning up the volume when mixing for long periods because I know this is something we tend to do. Thanks for the help

As mentioned by others, take breaks during your long mixing periods if you aren't already. It's good you're being conscious of not turning the volume up but going for hours on end is one thing I changed that I found helpful in multiple areas.

Ear health/fatigue, but also eye health, body health (not sitting for ever), mentally refreshing (which also helps with the creativity).

I use an app on my Mac that covers/blocks the screen at set intervals to remind me to step away from the compute. I get something to drink or just get away from the computer for a minute or two to check on the outside world lol.

Oh, speaking of the outside world, it's a noisy one, so don't just think of hearing health as an "inside the studio" thing. I've got Hearo earplugs in my pocket, my car, my backpack, on and on lol.

[Nameerf]

I called up AT SR-88 and I think I hear what you are refering to. In these instances I think whats happening is a high energy low frequency component of the transient that is pushing a lot of air for a short duration. This would cause a quick push of your ear drum which might be uncomfortable. an HPF with a low cutoff and compression would help. to me, if this is the case, this would be an artifact that would need to be corrected. the fact that you are sensitive to it is a good thing because it will enable you to more easily correct/remove it. I did try an HPF with a cutoff around 30Hz 18dB/oct slope and some compression with fast attack and it did help get rid of that pumping effect.

I tested it again and it seems to be when there's a mixture of high and low frequencies - kick drum on it's own doesn't do it! But I did see my speaker cones move about half a centimetre at one point while I was tweaking the hi-hat pitch! Also seems to be related to relatively loud noises with total silence in between...
Be careful with your ears everyone!