KVR Audio

roman.i · Post by **roman.i** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:23 pm

Saturation on filters and saturation as the first master effect.
So warm = saturated, at least this is the case with Spire. Take out these two components, it will sound as a typical boring digital synth.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:26 pm

Naaah.

You're wrong. Lot more going on than that.

roman.i · Post by **roman.i** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:39 pm

cron · Post by **cron** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:52 pm

In the case of Serum, it depends. It's all about being massively modulatable and its modulation (particularly of wavetable position) is pretty dirty as far as WT synths go. Analog: no, clean: definitely not assuming you're modulating, characterful... well, maybe. TBH, it's one of those synths where it almost doesn't matter. I'm never putting Serum on a track because it sounds amazing, I'm putting it on the track because the workflow is by far the fastest of the synths I own.

I cannot understand complaints of sterility about Vital at all on the other hand. Its filters are super underrated and they make the synth respond like an instrument - it's extremely playable and sounds 'alive' so long as you're thinking about the gain structure of your patch. You compare the filters to something like Pigments, where there's only one filter that responds to post-gain and pre-gain appreciably differently, and it's honestly no contest IMO. They're just great filters.

Biome_Digital · Post by **Biome_Digital** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:17 am

srv-musikmaker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:29 pm II'll say it's limitations can force you into becoming better at sound design

Personally, I think it is "options" (to a point) that make better sound design. Limitations can lead to frustations.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:21 am

Yep. Especially when you're used to more functionality.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:57 pm

Biome_Digital wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:17 am
srv-musikmaker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:29 pm II'll say it's limitations can force you into becoming better at sound design
Personally, I think it is "options" (to a point) that make better sound design. Limitations can lead to frustations.

Discussing/arguing on KVR definitely makes one a better sound designer

SpartanNoble · Post by **SpartanNoble** » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:52 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:50 pm Well... they all try to emulate hardware.

And, I also disagree that there are no warm sounding digital synths. Spire has been mentioned above. Very warm sounding digital.

There are uses for both: Warm and cold sound. Serum isn't exactly the warmest synth, but, it's capable of producing some great sounds.

I think Spire complements Serum very well.

Spire is paradoxical: with the main focus on EDM (as it seemed to me), it has a really warm sound.

There is definitely something in it.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:06 pm

SpartanNoble wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:52 pm
chk071 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:50 pm Well... they all try to emulate hardware.

And, I also disagree that there are no warm sounding digital synths. Spire has been mentioned above. Very warm sounding digital.

There are uses for both: Warm and cold sound. Serum isn't exactly the warmest synth, but, it's capable of producing some great sounds.

I think Spire complements Serum very well.
Spire is paradoxical: with the main focus on EDM (as it seemed to me), it has a really warm sound.

I don't think it's paradoxical. They also used the Virus and Sylenth1 a lot, which are also rather warm synths (although Spire is loads warmer than Sylenth1).

Good to hear that I don't imagine things though.

HAL76 · Post by **HAL76** » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:10 pm

isuckatproducing wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:07 pm Hi,

I know you can do good stuff with these synths especially when it's mixed well, but I have tried both and they sound lifeless to me.
For example Spire has much deeper sound.

Or is it just me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAyKJAtDNCw

kvotchin · Post by **kvotchin** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:46 pm

Maybe try an oscilloscope and spectrum analyser? You can then see if there’s any real difference when using an identical patch (starting from just one unfiltered oscillator with a basic waveform, sans modulation and effects, of course).

There probably is, if my own ears/brain are anything to go by, but it’s still a nice objective way to be sure.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:59 am

I have tried Serum, Vital and most recently dived into Ableton Wavetable, and as much I like the possibilities, their sound just doesn't inspire me at all. Havent done any deeper analysis on why, it just feels like they are missing something.

As a reference, I use mainly Reaktor Blocks and Aalto alongside hw analogs, with Surge for workhorse duties (not the best sounding synth of all times, but super usable), and Spectral (ultra hifi) and Zebralette (low cpu lofi) for digital pads. I was very excited about adding a wavetable synth to this palette, but the actual results have so far been a disappointment.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:16 am

I'm grateful that I'm not so anal about warmth/life/je ne sais quoi, when it comes to synths and can enjoy using a wide range of them because they sound good enough (to me) and are fun play around with

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:01 pm

.jon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:59 am I have tried Serum, Vital and most recently dived into Ableton Wavetable, and as much I like the possibilities, their sound just doesn't inspire me at all. Havent done any deeper analysis on why, it just feels like they are missing something.

As a reference, I use mainly Reaktor Blocks and Aalto alongside hw analogs, with Surge for workhorse duties (not the best sounding synth of all times, but super usable), and Spectral (ultra hifi) and Zebralette (low cpu lofi) for digital pads. I was very excited about adding a wavetable synth to this palette, but the actual results have so far been a disappointment.

It's probably a wavetable thing. I'm in the same boat and mostly just don't like what I hear on almost all wavetable synths. Vital is the first one I've used that I like, and I'm pretty sure that's because it has very strong filters (I love its formant and comb filters etc). I've never liked any Waldorf synth so far, likely because I just don't like their raw sound even though they have all the features I know I should like and analogue filters on some. Even Vital - take the filters out and I almost deleted it but filters make it so good. I'm not the only one, it just seems like with wavetables you either love 'em or hate 'em, nothing in-between.

Take Korg...I'm a diehard fan boy for decades. Bought hw Wavestate and Opsix, even both native versions. Will get an XD at some point but I just cannot like Modwave. It has a whole load of insanely good features that I'd kill for on all my other hw synths but the nasty metallic wavetable sound leaves me cold.

sscheetah · Post by **sscheetah** » Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:52 am

I've got some nice sounds out of Serum but you have to do a lot to it—make use of all the built-in modulation, apply a lot of saturation afterward, etc. etc. I find its built-in FX do sound sterile TBH. However, I also agree with PieBerger above—I have bad ears and no taste, so I probably can't tell if it sounds lacking after all that anyways XD

Is it just me or Serum/Vital sounds without life?