Why did you leave Studio One?

[BONES]

Yes up to date. Long time RME user even had their support guy try to help. Yes, increasing the buffer to 1024 doesn't work so well for recording midi but does for the pops and clicks. Running Windows 11.

I am increasingly suspicious of Windows 11, as my issues with Studio One seem to multiply with each little OS update. Since I bought my current laptop, earlier this year, music production has gone from smooth as silk to something of a nightmare. Now that we've got our EP out the door, I am going to get to the bottom of it but I really want to avoid a reinstall of everything if I can.

[jamcat]

I’m very happy with Mac OS 13.

[EnGee]

Yes up to date. Long time RME user even had their support guy try to help. Yes, increasing the buffer to 1024 doesn't work so well for recording midi but does for the pops and clicks. Running Windows 11.

I am increasingly suspicious of Windows 11, as my issues with Studio One seem to multiply with each little OS update. Since I bought my current laptop, earlier this year, music production has gone from smooth as silk to something of a nightmare. Now that we've got our EP out the door, I am going to get to the bottom of it but I really want to avoid a reinstall of everything if I can.

I also suspect Win 11! Things are not very smooth as in Windows 10 before or Mac OS 12 (I haven't upgraded yet to Ventura). Strangely, FL Studio the latest update is running very smooth with Windows 11! Also Reaper the latest one! I suspect that some DAWs haven't updated to match the latest update of Windows 11! Man! This is a headache! I need Windows Security updates but it might be not possible to be with the latest updates with a stable smooth audio production in some DAWs! Although I feel it is random! Some DAWs are perfect now with the current OS, then things completely changes when there is another update!!

[Spin Boyz]

I think you guys may have a point with Win11. I don't remember having these issues with Win10.

[chk071]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

[EnGee]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

Good notice! I need to shut down all other software while music making.

Oh man! I logged on my mini mac and everything (all DAWs including S1 and all plugins in AU) playing so smooth without any problem! Almost all plugins use less cpu!! Inspite of my PC Ryzen is easily faster than M1.

The only two DAWs that work very well on my Wndows 11 are FLS and Reaper! Maybe because they are Windows centric DAWs? I mean they run better on Windows (including 11).
Also, it seems VST3 plugins have much more bugs than AU versions! So, who knows? Maybe VST3 is a shitty format!

[chk071]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

Good notice! I need to shut down all other software while music making.

Oh man! I logged on my mini mac and everything (all DAWs including S1 and all plugins in AU) playing so smooth without any problem! Almost all plugins use less cpu!! Inspite of my PC Ryzen is easily faster than M1.

What's weird is that I never had a better result in LatencyMon than on my current desktop PC using Windows 11. Of course, I didn't open the browser during the test.

[EnGee]

What's weird is that I never had a better result in LatencyMon than on my current desktop PC using Windows 11. Of course, I didn't open the browser during the test.

I run the LatencyMon for 5 mins and it doesn't seem there is a problem. I suspect that the problem in general is the overall Audio performance in Windows 11. To be specific, VST3 with Windows 11.

[trusampler]

still waiting for presonus to release a browser that can tag instruments/vst presets properly,no point in having track presets,instrument presets etc. if we can't use them in an efficient manner. alot of us who create content need fast access to our user sounds without scrolling. the browser needs a huge update

[Igro]

What exactly this tagging is doing? What is the actual use? What is the point of tagging, say, a 909 kick, if it is already listed as 909 kick?

[syntonica]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

All browsers are extremely resource hungry, but Chrome is the worst offender.

[musicproducerdee]

What exactly this tagging is doing? What is the actual use? What is the point of tagging, say, a 909 kick, if it is already listed as 909 kick?

filtering I guess.

[chk071]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

All browsers are extremely resource hungry, but Chrome is the worst offender.

I don't know. It never was an issue on my Windows 10 computer.

[Trensharo]

Half the people in this thread sound like computer illiterates, to be honest.

Windows 11 is fine.

What I'd like to know is how Studio One performs for people with "problems" if they switch the Audio Engine to Windows Audio Exclusive and run Studio One through that. This isn't about whether or not WA is as good as ASIO. IT's about how Studio One performs when you remove the 3rd party ASIO driver from the pipeline and use a system component that is properly (and automatically) prioritized by the host OS.

I'm suspecting some issues have to do with thread scheduling. Windows will automatically increase the affinity of "Pro Audio" threads for properly developed applications using Windows Low Latency Audio or WASAPI, but most people are using ASIO for Pro Audio.

Ref: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windo ... ency-audio

Also, Microsoft recommends for applications that use WASAPI to also use the Real-Time Work Queue API or the MFCreateMFByteStreamOnStreamEx to create work items and tag them as Audio or Pro Audio, instead of their own threads. This will allow Windows to manage them in a way that will avoid interference non-audio subsystems. In contrast, all AudioGraph threads are automatically managed correctly by Windows. The following code snippet from the WASAPIAudio sample shows how to use the MF Work Queue APIs.

So, assuming PreSonus is following recommendations, I'd like to know how the application behaves for user projects when they switch Audio Drivers, so that we can pinpoint whether or not the Audio API being used may be introducing some of these issues (due to how the audio threads are being tagged and prioritized by the application/OS).

One "clue" is that many people that I've seen discuss these issues on various forums report the problems go away when they manually increase the Process Affinity for the DAW. This leads me to believe that threads are not being prioritized properly, leading to them competing with other processes and causing some of these issues.

I doubt Windows 11 has anything to do with that, as the OS hasn't changed anything this fundamental. It's practically a Windows 10 service/feature pack. The idea that this just popped up on Windows 11 is confirmation bias in virtually all cases.

Personally, when using Windows Laptops, I've generally always used Windows Audio. I specifically got Studio One for use exclusively only on my Laptop (usually when traveling) because Cubase is ASIO-only. ASIO driver bugs are common and often masquerade as DAW bugs or system issues. There were tons of people with Scarlett interfaces blaming Windows for Crackles and Underruns when the issues was actually the Focusrite ASIO driver. They've since introduced a Protect Feature to the drier - at the expense of higher RT Latency - but it took them years to get it out there.

Many interfaces have both buggy ASIO and WDM drivers.

I've never had these issues running Studio One through Windows Audio with the built-in sound card (I keep the drivers up-to-date), and the RT Latency is comparable to most stereo interfaces, so there is no point in using one or its ASIO driver in the scenarios I use a laptop for. I do use ASIO on my desktop, but I'm probably going to replace that with a Mac Studio soon. I can't count how many hours I have wasted troubleshooting DAW issues that turned out to be ASIO drivers. I once switched DAWs completely only to find out the issue was the drivers of the interfaces I owned - unfortunately the two that I chose to buy.

I'm sure others are fine, but it's a roulette, in my experience. One that I plan to avoid in the future.

All of the problematic interfaces work perfectly on macOS as class compliant devices, of course. Ss, the drivers absolutely are the problem.

So, there are two outstanding issues that need investigation:

1. Thread Prioritization, using Windows Audio Exclusive (specifically) as a "Control" - in DAWs that have good Windows Audio Support
2. Is Studio One the problem? Use the same interface and Drivers (and control with Windows Audio) in a DAW like Cakewalk by BandLab or REAPER and attempt to reproduce the issue.
3. Are you sure the ASIO drivers are not at fault? Particularly for those who use Focusrite or M-Audio interfaces, or are depending on middleware like ASIO4ALL (honestly if the latter don't even bother until you get proper hardware... ASIO4ALL is never worth using when Windows Audio Exclusive is an option).

[Trensharo]

One issue I noticed with all DAW's is that I get crackles when I open up Chrome browser when music or single instruments are playing.

That's almost definitely an issue with thread prioritization. The Chrome Browser is competing with the Audio Threads, this is why you get crackles.

Also, if you are using Chrome with the same audio device as the DAW and there is a mismatch in Bit Depth or Sample Rate you may get "interrupts" when opening it. The same as you would when changing settings in the ASIO Control Panel during playback, etc.

Personally, I don't use Pro Audio I/O for mainstream computer applications on a desktop, so I don't ever see this type of issue. Desktop applications play out of desktop speakers. DAWs play out of the Audio Interface.

On a laptop this is not possible because I use Windows Audio Exclusive with Studio One, and why would I need to open a browser when I can simply use my iPad, iPhone or Android phone to browse the internet? Copying and pasting from Browser to DAW (is that even a thing?) is not an issue because I can just paste to OneNote and 5 seconds later it's there on the computer, anyways.

Also, I don't use Chrome. It's known for being a crappy resource hog, and Edge uses the same browser engine and runs almost all of the same add-ons. What's the point? Google Sync? Lol. Windows also will put Edge to Sleep automatically if it's not in use, and you can easily turn off the background processes in settings. This applies to most native/built-in apps and services. The more loaded up your computer is with 3rd party applications, the more risk you have of competitive inefficiencies for real-time applications - particularly those that aren't using native APIs that are automatically prioritized by the host operating system.

On a production media creation PC, it often pays off to stick to native system APIs and applications because they are typically better managed by the underlying host operating platform.