How should I Record my Guitars?

[tmaworks]

So, I've got this setup where I don't have any volume or tone knobs on my guitar and I control all the dynamics with three different clean boosts. Basically have low, medium and "blasted". I'm using tube amps, so the tube distortion is a big part of the sound -Big part of the dynamics...

Last time I recorded, we just did the guitars how I would live -stomping on the pedals and whatnot. It worked just fine, but... I'm wondering if there might be some way to make it a little bit "cleaner" this time around?? The guitar goes in and out of the boosts for different sections of the songs a lot. I thought about doing it DI and then re-amping so that I would have more control in the mix, but that's a pain -And, no interaction with the amp really when recording. I've got some different ideas... I could also just do it as I did before (the "live" way) and then come back in later and overdub if any of the sections need to be filled out or have another tone or more emphasis added onto them. Anoooother way is... I guess the STL Tones thing?? My cousin uses it and swears by it. I'm kind of biased to real amps, but I'll do anything for the mix. I don't really care... Just brainstorming here... I am recording and mixing all this myself...

Also, I saw this vid of CLA recently and noticed that he's recording all his guitars in STEREO (Check 7:06 here if curious: ) which was totally a foreign concept to me, but he also uses all these stereo effects on them (reverbs and delays) which makes things sound really freakin' full and awesome... Ya'll messed around with stereo guitars in this way?? I just always recorded mono and panned them, but this seems like it might be worth a try -Recording them in stereo right off the bat and then just processing them that way...

Thanks.

[Unaspected]

Track DI and amp in parallel. Then, if you need to re-amp and add layers later, it's easy to do and you have the feel of playing the amp whilst performing.

If an effect is in stereo, then I would track that as intended - such as a Leslie, pingpong delay, etc.

[tmaworks]

Track DI and amp in parallel. Then, if you need to re-amp and add layers later, it's easy to do and you have the feel of playing the amp whilst performing.

If an effect is in stereo, then I would track that as intended - such as a Leslie, pingpong delay, etc.

Ahhh nice. Re the stereo part: So, you're saying that I should track the guitar in stereo or mono depending on what type of effect might be in that particular part?? I do switch in and out of echos/ delays a lot. Of course they're not stereo live, but I think for the mix I'd like to make the delays stereo.

I guess I could just track all the guitars in stereo and then separate whatever sections are stereo or mono in the editing process. That would seem to make sense...

- So, do you think that's why he's tracking those guitars in stereo? Like, is that the reason -Simply because he intends to use stereo effects on them??

[Unaspected]

Track DI and amp in parallel. Then, if you need to re-amp and add layers later, it's easy to do and you have the feel of playing the amp whilst performing.

If an effect is in stereo, then I would track that as intended - such as a Leslie, pingpong delay, etc.

Ahhh nice. Re the stereo part: So, you're saying that I should track the guitar in stereo or mono depending on what type of effect might be in that particular part?? I do switch in and out of echos/ delays a lot. Of course they're not stereo live, but I think for the mix I'd like to make the delays stereo.

I guess I could just track all the guitars in stereo and then separate whatever sections are stereo or mono in the editing process. That would seem to make sense...

- So, do you think that's why he's tracking those guitars in stereo? Like, is that the reason -Simply because he intends to use stereo effects on them??

It depends on what hardware you are working with. Obviously the guitar itself has a mono output and I would only use "stereo" here to split the signal so that you can feed an amp and DI.

If you are going to process your amp sound with a delay after the fact then I would track mono and use plugins unless you must use hardware effects - only then would I record the sound on their own left and right tracks.

It might be easier to work with plugins or a re-amped signal if you want to play with the delay. Another consideration might be making sure the delay syncs and is in tone with the mix - then you might want to use plugins or re-amp so you can feed the amp with the delay.

So it really depends on where the delay is placed in the signal chain as to how flexible your options are.

[tmaworks]

Track DI and amp in parallel. Then, if you need to re-amp and add layers later, it's easy to do and you have the feel of playing the amp whilst performing.

If an effect is in stereo, then I would track that as intended - such as a Leslie, pingpong delay, etc.

Ahhh nice. Re the stereo part: So, you're saying that I should track the guitar in stereo or mono depending on what type of effect might be in that particular part?? I do switch in and out of echos/ delays a lot. Of course they're not stereo live, but I think for the mix I'd like to make the delays stereo.

I guess I could just track all the guitars in stereo and then separate whatever sections are stereo or mono in the editing process. That would seem to make sense...

- So, do you think that's why he's tracking those guitars in stereo? Like, is that the reason -Simply because he intends to use stereo effects on them??

It depends on what hardware you are working with. Obviously the guitar itself has a mono output and I would only use "stereo" here to split the signal so that you can feed an amp and DI.

If you are going to process your amp sound with a delay after the fact then I would track mono and use plugins unless you must use hardware effects - only then would I record the sound on their own left and right tracks.

It might be easier to work with plugins or a re-amped signal if you want to play with the delay. Another consideration might be making sure the delay syncs and is in tone with the mix - then you might want to use plugins or re-amp so you can feed the amp with the delay.

So it really depends on where the delay is placed in the signal chain as to how flexible your options are.

Ahhhh, Okay. I suspect that's why CLA's guitar tracks featured in that vid are stereo then -Probably because he's feeding them to outboard gear...

[metamorphosis]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

[tmaworks]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

Great idea. Never thought of that.

Thank you so much.

[Unaspected]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

Great idea. Never thought of that.

Thank you so much.

If you use different distances then you'll encounter phase issues; creating a comb filter effect. When panned hard left and right you'll create a Haas Effect - which can, indeed, sound nice and wide but when summed back to mono will create comb filtering that will change the tone.

I've experimented with placing multiple mics at equal distances on guitar cabs for a stereo effect but wasn't as impressed as close mics or a single mic. Of course, this is subjective. What might work, if you like the tone from the edge of the speaker is to place the mics up close and equal distance from the cone but on opposite edges - and pan the result hard left and right. That might get you a stereo effect to feed further stereo effects, if that is what we're aiming for.

[astralprojection]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

What a horrible suggestion. Unless you want to cancel out frequencies all together of course

[tmaworks]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

Great idea. Never thought of that.

Thank you so much.

If you use different distances then you'll encounter phase issues; creating a comb filter effect. When panned hard left and right you'll create a Haas Effect - which can, indeed, sound nice and wide but when summed back to mono will create comb filtering that will change the tone.

I've experimented with placing multiple mics at equal distances on guitar cabs for a stereo effect but wasn't as impressed as close mics or a single mic. Of course, this is subjective. What might work, if you like the tone from the edge of the speaker is to place the mics up close and equal distance from the cone but on opposite edges - and pan the result hard left and right. That might get you a stereo effect to feed further stereo effects, if that is what we're aiming for.

I'm actually kind of into mono these days... haha!

If you followed the 3:1 rule, you shouldn't have much problems with phase, no??

At the moment, I'm thinking just stick a 57 and a 421 right up on the grill and let it ride... -Also, got an AKG C1000s recently and am excited to try that out!!

[tmaworks]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

What a horrible suggestion. Unless you want to cancel out frequencies all together of course

Wouldn't you be alright if you just stuck to the 3:1 rule. Ex. 1 mic right up on the gril and the other 15 inches back, or so?? I've seen Albini put some mics back there -One closer and one further away, if I'm not mistaken...

[astralprojection]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

What a horrible suggestion. Unless you want to cancel out frequencies all together of course

Wouldn't you be alright if you just stuck to the 3:1 rule. Ex. 1 mic right up on the gril and the other 15 inches back, or so?? I've seen Albini put some mics back there -One closer and one further away, if I'm not mistaken...

Yeah you can make it work absolutely, but I believe mr albini also monitors closely on his oscilloscope to make sure theyre in phase with eachother. you could ofc do this in your daw as well, by moving one of the recordings in time, to match phase with the other. but either way you Are gonna cancel out some of the frequencies, some of the time, which can sound nice and wide ofc, bit like unison or chorus effect.

but just putting two mics at two different distances and mixing between them sounds like a mono summing nightmare.

[Unaspected]

Two of the same mics, at different distances, mix between them, or
pan them hard left and hard right and put different in-daw amps on them to create a wider signal.

What a horrible suggestion. Unless you want to cancel out frequencies all together of course

Wouldn't you be alright if you just stuck to the 3:1 rule. Ex. 1 mic right up on the gril and the other 15 inches back, or so?? I've seen Albini put some mics back there -One closer and one further away, if I'm not mistaken...

Yeah you can make it work absolutely, but I believe mr albini also monitors closely on his oscilloscope to make sure theyre in phase with eachother. you could ofc do this in your daw as well, by moving one of the recordings in time, to match phase with the other. but either way you Are gonna cancel out some of the frequencies, some of the time, which can sound nice and wide ofc, bit like unison or chorus effect.

but just putting two mics at two different distances and mixing between them sounds like a mono summing nightmare.

Exactly.

It will depend on the frequencies in the notes played. So one distance might work better for a certain riff - but as astralprojection suggests, this might seem like creating problems to solve.

One way I might work with this, however, is to use the distant mic like a room mic on a drum kit and use it for reverb. It also depends on the type of music we're looking to create or the mood for a certain section in a piece. Albini is a master of mic placement - EQing with mics - so don't expect his methods to work first time round.

Definitely experiment lots. I don't mean to put anyone off experimentation in recording because that was one of the things that captured my imagination and lead me into sound engineering in the first place.

[astralprojection]

yeah i also support experimenting. maybe you find a spot where just the right comb filtering is happening making it sound very cool and very wide. but its still gonna be a nightmare when summed to mono, probably. unless you make sure at least 90% of the two recordings are actually in phase with eachother. then you dont run the risk of thinning out the sound or making it sound bad in mono, but still keeping it wide and interesting in stereo.

[Unaspected]

Another trick that might work is the fix for hissy guitars: Roll off the highs and then replace with harmonic excitation. Then the cancelation will be more like adjusting tone and any phase issues in the high frequencies will have been filtered out.