KVR Audio

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:37 am

In all honesty, I wasn’t impressed. It’s fine, but in a world of great synths, I didn’t find that it stood out in any way.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:08 am

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:37 am In all honesty, I wasn’t impressed. It’s fine, but in a world of great synths, I didn’t find that it stood out in any way.

Seems like a fair opinion. It does have something that personally grabs me though and it's at least on my radar now. But not at this price. Willing to wait for some no-brainer unregistered price offered in the KVR market though.
(Maybe because I wasn't impressed with Opsix or those last three collection additions, this feels more impressive to me in relation to those?)

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:59 am

SLiC wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:08 pm OK, I demoed it properly- a sold week of playing with it trying to prove I didn't need it....ended up buying it, may even be my favourite soft synths of 2022! I did not expect that, it just sounds really good no matter what I do in it.

That’s great to hear, thank you!

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:11 am

susquash wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:22 am How did you demo it for a week?
All korg synths only allow 20 minute demo usage.

After running for 20 minutes, the plug-in times out - but you can close and reopen, and run for another 20 minutes, and repeat as often as you like. You can’t save, though, and state is not saved in DAW projects.

Cepheus · Post by **Cepheus** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:50 am

Great synth! Together with the Opsix and the Modwave, I would call it a hattrick for Korg. While this being this software, you have far more tactile control with the hardware version but I don’t have the space or the wish for a 37 not-so-great-keys sized device. I tried it in a store and the keybed is really a let-down but the controls are great. However, in Reaper, I can use a joystick as a controller and could do the morphing. Does anybody know of a springless USB joystick which is similar to that of the Wavestate. That would great! Also for other synths.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:26 am

Cepheus wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:50 am Does anybody know of a springless USB joystick which is similar to that of the Wavestate. That would great! Also for other synths.

I have one in my Eurorack but they are really hard to find as a USB device...I use a touchpad (Roli Light block will do (I use an EARE Touch, can program 4 joysticks for Zebra etc and light LED shows the position of the virtual joystick)

I am surprised no one has made one as a decent quality physical joystick feels great and so many virtual synths use joystick input (serval Korgs!)

Cepheus · Post by **Cepheus** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:05 pm

I have seen the Eurorack joysticks. These are just the ones I'm looking for however Eurorack is a dangerous rabbithole which I wish to avoid. Have been looking at the Expressive E Touché but that one moves back to the centre as soon as you release it ( I think?).

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:17 pm

Cepheus wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:05 pm I have seen the Eurorack joysticks. These are just the ones I'm looking for however Eurorack is a dangerous rabbithole which I wish to avoid. Have been looking at the Expressive E Touché but that one moves back to the centre as soon as you release it ( I think?).

Expressive E Touché springs back (I have one)

I wonder how easy it is to take the return spring out of this one! https://www.lab4music.it/enjoy.php?lang=EN

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:46 pm

BBFG# wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:08 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:37 am In all honesty, I wasn’t impressed. It’s fine, but in a world of great synths, I didn’t find that it stood out in any way.
Seems like a fair opinion. It does have something that personally grabs me though and it's at least on my radar now. But not at this price. Willing to wait for some no-brainer unregistered price offered in the KVR market though.
(Maybe because I wasn't impressed with Opsix or those last three collection additions, this feels more impressive to me in relation to those?)

I guess we’re probably just spoiled with great instruments. It seems like Korg is living in isolation, as if there hasn’t been amazing competition for the past 20 years. Again, I’m not saying it’s bad. Not at all, but I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments. The Korg one sounds pretty lame to me, which you’d think would be the opposite. I’m so synth rich that I got Hive 2 at last year’s NI sale and haven’t had time to really dig into it, but when I did yesterday, I instantly felt like the default filter on the default oscillator in the init patch just sounded really great, and I’d really not done anything yet. Same thing with Dune and Massive X. If you want to extract money from me, you’d better be putting out something that sounds at least as good as the competition, and offering some sort of features that are new and unique.

That’s just me, though. If Modwave is your bag, then don’t mind me. It definitely can make good sounds. I just personally need a bit more.

susquash · Post by **susquash** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:00 pm

danatkorg wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:11 am
susquash wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:22 am How did you demo it for a week?
All korg synths only allow 20 minute demo usage.
After running for 20 minutes, the plug-in times out - but you can close and reopen, and run for another 20 minutes, and repeat as often as you like. You can’t save, though, and state is not saved in DAW projects.

Thanks for the info.
I wasn't aware that that was the case.
I didn't really like modwave or opsix but I own all the others. Wavestate and microkorg are my favorites.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:34 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:46 pm I guess we’re probably just spoiled with great instruments. It seems like Korg is living in isolation, as if there hasn’t been amazing competition for the past 20 years.

Hmmmm. Well, here's what one of our sound designers said during development of the modwave hardware:
"I’m sure you know I’ve been doing projects as complex as this for [a long time], but modwave really is a far deeper than usual interface when you add the physics, sequencer, two layers, 2GB of data, insanely deep Mod Knobs, etc etc. This is practically Omnisphere in hardware. It’s way deeper than Serum."

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:46 pmAgain, I’m not saying it’s bad. Not at all, but I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments. The Korg one sounds pretty lame to me, which you’d think would be the opposite.

I listened to these side-by-side, again, just to make sure that I wasn't crazy. As expected, the modwave filters sound like an MS-20. The "MS-20" filter in Pigments has a good amount of resonance, and is fun enough in its own right, but I couldn't push it to out-of-control resonance (especially at lower frequencies) or screaming overdrive like the MS-20. I wonder if you had a chance to read the help text at the bottom of the modwave native window. For the MS-20 filter type, you'll see this:

"Classic Korg MS-20 12dB/oct, self-resonating low-pass filter with aggressive, saturated resonance. Input Gain has a strong effect on resonance character."

And for the Gain parameter that appears directly to the right of the filter type, you'll see this:

"Input gain has a strong effect on the character of the MS-20 and Polysix filters. The lower the input gain, the more headroom remains for resonance to bloom."

The modwave native manual (menu->Open Online Manual) has more detail:

"Gain is available only when Type is MS-20 LP, MS-20 HP, or Polysix. These filter types include saturation, which interacts with resonance. With anything other than very low resonance settings, input volume can have a strong effect on their character. The lower the input gain, the more headroom remains for the resonance to bloom. Use Gain to set the basic input level, and then fine-tune with Trim if desired.
Normal, 2-osc input: This is the lowest input gain. It will produce the classic resonant sounds of these filters even with extremely loud input signals.
Normal, 1-osc input: This will produce the classic resonant sounds of these filters with a single oscillator playing at full volume. When input is louder than a single full-volume oscillator, the resonance effect will be less pronounced.
Unity, Less Resonance: Volume is unattenuated. This leaves less headroom, so resonance will be less prominent.
Loud, Less Resonance: This provides a slight volume boost on input. This makes it easy to reach saturation with the input level alone, leaving very little headroom for resonance."

So, make sure to set the Gain for the effect you're looking for. For the most screaming, overdriven timbres, set it to "Normal, 2-osc input." If you're using both oscillators and the sub osc, all at full volume and with rich waveforms (frequency content of waveforms varies quite a bit), try turning the filter Input Trim down to 50.

Hope this helps,

Dan

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:02 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:46 pm
BBFG# wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:08 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:37 am In all honesty, I wasn’t impressed. It’s fine, but in a world of great synths, I didn’t find that it stood out in any way.
Seems like a fair opinion. It does have something that personally grabs me though and it's at least on my radar now. But not at this price. Willing to wait for some no-brainer unregistered price offered in the KVR market though.
(Maybe because I wasn't impressed with Opsix or those last three collection additions, this feels more impressive to me in relation to those?)
I guess we’re probably just spoiled with great instruments. It seems like Korg is living in isolation, as if there hasn’t been amazing competition for the past 20 years. Again, I’m not saying it’s bad. Not at all, but I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments. The Korg one sounds pretty lame to me, which you’d think would be the opposite. I’m so synth rich that I got Hive 2 at last year’s NI sale and haven’t had time to really dig into it, but when I did yesterday, I instantly felt like the default filter on the default oscillator in the init patch just sounded really great, and I’d really not done anything yet. Same thing with Dune and Massive X. If you want to extract money from me, you’d better be putting out something that sounds at least as good as the competition, and offering some sort of features that are new and unique.

That’s just me, though. If Modwave is your bag, then don’t mind me. It definitely can make good sounds. I just personally need a bit more.

All very good points that I happen to agree with. I think Korg being my first synth in 1973 and having a life long continuation of owning them in various iterations in almost every setup keeps me somehow loyal? Even though, as a company, their marketing always has a tie of having to put up with their way of doing things.
My latest inclination is staying clear of companies that have NFR licensing (even with work around), or obvious subscription schemes or dismissive support and manager downloading absolutes.
Like you, I bought Hive2 in the last NI sale and haven't really explored it as much as it deserves.
Like I said, a stellar price would be the point I probably won't be able to resist on this. But for now, I can easily pass as well.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:20 pm

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:46 pm I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:22 am

Is that gain structure the same in Opsix and Wavestate also? I have both (in sw and hw as I liked them so much) but tbh I haven't had time to delve into the filter depths as I've been playing with all the wavesequencing and FM delights as a priority. I thought a bit the same as zerocrossing with the MS and Polysix filters but I might just have missed the obvious as I was so dazzled by the other toys. Would be delighted if it were in Opsix & Wavestate too. I still have a proper 70s MS20 mkI original and no bastard screams quite like that. Can make your ears bleed if you feed the output back in to itself and crank the res

. Was thinking of getting one of those Behringer MS20 modules (sorry) and still likely I'll buy a new Korg full size MS20. I'm a bit of a fan boy if you hadn't guessed

please make my day Dan and tell me I can make my Wavestate scream like a bastard too...

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:30 am

Actually, I might just have to shelve plans and go back to the studio today to check it out myself. I just had this aural vision of heavenly Wavestate choirs being tortured by Hellraiser with a screaming 20 filter.

Korg Modwave Native (VST3)