Bitwig VS Ableton

[SLiC]

I don't have one long list, I have it set up like this- same as folders per vendor.,
...

You would have... if you click on "Any creator"!

This workaround serves you nothing without a big click/scroll parade when you just want to see all in one go without having a vendor preselected...
This is what I meant with the Reaper example before...

If you want NOT to go the preselection path when having a general browsing around you end up with a cluttered endless long list with tons of scrolling and basically no general overview in Bitwig... period...

There is no way around as Bitwig settles on this small lists principle no matter how you try to cheat...

Not a showstopper but as I said: (for me) enjoyable and flexible/ergonomic is something else...

I can't personally think of any time I would want to see all of my (300+) VSTs iat the same time. To me it seems like if you don't use any filter and you have a lot of plugs you either end up with a list in either one column (ie Bigwig, Studio On etc ) or Multiple columns (ie Reaper). Neither work or seem practical to me- filters, folders and smart collections are tools that make my production faster and easier on the eye.

In Bitwig I have taken to making a folder (collection) for each song I am working on and selecting a few instruments, pre-sets, loops etc that will suit the song (a bit like selecting a colour palette when paining!) I have found this (limiting) aspect to very very useful in focusing on making music and not just loading one VST after another!

[Dionysos]

I really like the Bitwig (pop-up) browser, and I haven't even customised it much beyond a few hidden columns. That said, I've always tried to keep the number of plugins I use as low as possible, and access most of them by simply typing a few letters.

And it's definitely not great for exploration. It's not uncommon for me to struggle finding a specific Bitwig factory sound pack, for example, especially if I don't remember the sometimes obscure names they're given. Or sometimes I'm not sure which modulator to pick from the list of similar sounding devices.
That's mitigated quite a bit by the fact that in-place-previewing is a first class citizen when browsing anything in Bitwig. I'm probably not the only one here who got lost tweaking a synth patch for ages, only to notice after a while that the browser was still open, and I've been tweaking the preview! It's pretty great.

When I used FL Studio, I was a big fan of its plugin picker, which is essentially a full-screen grid of plugin UI thumbnails, which works incredibly well both for picking what you're looking for directly (you quickly build a muscle memory of a plugin's location on screen), and visually browsing for inspiration.

It wouldn't work well for people with a lot of plugins, and the value of thumbnails would be questionable in Bitwig, where all native devices follow a consistent design language so they'd all blend together a bit.

It could still be interesting to have an option in Bitwig for a similar grid view for plugins. A bit like the wavetable or IR browser.

[pdxindy]

In Bitwig the distances between the different sections you need to use with the mouse (tab and Shift+tab isn´t an option for me either as it means always hopping through all sections... that takes even longer) are huge and clearly make a huge difference...

- And at the latest when you make use of the device type filtering and you have inserted a Midi VST and want to insert an instrument afterwards you have to completely go over to the device type filter section because Bitwig now automatically switches over to "Audio FX" because it thinks you got the instrument already...

Your screenshot shows that you don't even have a single favorite assigned, nor a single collection created. It's obvious from your posts and screenshot that you have not even tried to use Bitwig how it was designed. You are trying to use it like Reaper and then getting frustrated that it isn't Reaper.

When you add a VST Midi device, it switches over to Audio FX as you point out. However, if you want that to include Audio FX plus a handful of your most frequently used synths, you can set that up and save it as default.

I have the defaults set up to suit my choices and 90+ % of the time I don't even touch the mouse. I bet that I add devices faster in Bitwig than you do in Reaper.

[jonljacobi]

Live literally feels like it was designed for the old and infirm

Care to describe the aspects of Live that lead you to this judgement? And are you old and infirm to confirm this firsthand? What do you consider old?

[dellboy]

I do not own Bitwig or live, so I can only speak from the perspective of demoing them. I find Bitwigs browser cluttered and confusing. Lives browser on the other hand is easy peasy and does mot seem to require me to become an expert on how to find a VST. I do own S1, Cubase Pro, and Mixcraft Pro,and do not particularly like the browsers in any of them. Strangely, although i have only demoed Reaper, its browser seems very easy to navigate no matter how many VSTs are shown. Out of all those DAWs, the browser I like least is Bitwigs.

[liquidsound]

Live literally feels like it was designed for the old and infirm

Care to describe the aspects of Live that lead you to this judgement? And are you old and infirm to confirm this firsthand? What do you consider old?

Like the old saying: "We see the world as we are"

[EnGee]

Bitwig sometimes copy things from Ableton even if it's stupid!
I hate it when they mix synths with effects for 3rd party. Why?
Bitwig has two browsers. The one on the right is almost useless, while using tags is overcomplicates things with not elegant pop up browser.
I prefer Live's colours folders as I can put my favourite synths in one colour and the effects in another. Still not ideal but more elegant solution than messy Bitwig browser.

I like when saving presets in native devices. There is a complete organized folder/sub-foldrrs with the devices, so no browsing needed.

Anyway, those are the less important reasons that made me choose Live over Bitwig. There are more important ones like the clearer policy and pricing. Also, the contents are better. The workflow and environment are also quicker and more spacious.
The most important question is whom you trust more. In my case I trust Ableton more than any other DAW company in both ethical and technical aspects.

I don't understand this, its an intelligent browser- if you open an instrument track it just shows instruments, if you open an audio track it just shows fx etc. Ableton doesn't even split FX and Instruments- they are all just shown under vendor which I agree is dumb, in the Bitwig Browser you just click instrument, FX or midi Fx to see just those or you can set it as defaults..it also autohides duplicates ort VST 3 over VST 2 etc- so no clutter.

Also, you can have 'unlimited' collections (favourite folders) not just seven (talk about a stupid limitation!) and smart collections will automatically generate and even update these favourite folders...its light years ahead of Ableton in this respect.

Also Bitwig Native devices have their own pre-set folder on the device- One Click!

I meant the main browser (on the right) not the pop up browser.
I don't have Bitwig anymore, but I remember all were mixed together, effects and instruments.

[perpetual3]

I frankly cannot understand how anyone could prefer Lives browser over Bitwigs.

[liquidsound]

I frankly cannot understand how anyone could prefer Lives browser over Bitwigs.

Simplicity and speed if you know your thing.

[duanosforde]

Bitwig sometimes copy things from Ableton even if it's stupid!
I hate it when they mix synths with effects for 3rd party. Why?
Bitwig has two browsers. The one on the right is almost useless, while using tags is overcomplicates things with not elegant pop up browser.
I prefer Live's colours folders as I can put my favourite synths in one colour and the effects in another. Still not ideal but more elegant solution than messy Bitwig browser.

I like when saving presets in native devices. There is a complete organized folder/sub-foldrrs with the devices, so no browsing needed.

Anyway, those are the less important reasons that made me choose Live over Bitwig. There are more important ones like the clearer policy and pricing. Also, the contents are better. The workflow and environment are also quicker and more spacious.
The most important question is whom you trust more. In my case I trust Ableton more than any other DAW company in both ethical and technical aspects.

I don't understand this, its an intelligent browser- if you open an instrument track it just shows instruments, if you open an audio track it just shows fx etc. Ableton doesn't even split FX and Instruments- they are all just shown under vendor which I agree is dumb, in the Bitwig Browser you just click instrument, FX or midi Fx to see just those or you can set it as defaults..it also autohides duplicates ort VST 3 over VST 2 etc- so no clutter.

Also, you can have 'unlimited' collections (favourite folders) not just seven (talk about a stupid limitation!) and smart collections will automatically generate and even update these favourite folders...its light years ahead of Ableton in this respect.

Also Bitwig Native devices have their own pre-set folder on the device- One Click!

I meant the main browser (on the right) not the pop up browser.
I don't have Bitwig anymore, but I remember all were mixed together, effects and instruments.

Not sure what version you were on but they definitely fixed that somewhere along the way. On the right side browser you can filter between Audio FX, Instruments, and note FX under the 'device type' tab/drop down.

[perpetual3]

I frankly cannot understand how anyone could prefer Lives browser over Bitwigs.

Simplicity and speed if you know your thing.

Like I said, can’t understand it. Used Live from 1.5 to 10.

[pdxindy]

I find Bitwigs browser cluttered

It's the users choice to hide most of the stuff if one wants.

[perpetual3]

It seems to me that many people don’t really understand the Bitwig browser.

[pdxindy]

I meant the main browser (on the right) not the pop up browser.
I don't have Bitwig anymore, but I remember all were mixed together, effects and instruments.

Create Collections and organize them exactly how you want... FX in one collection and instruments in another.

[EnGee]

Anyway, I found that typing what I want is much faster (in both browsers) than keep filtering or scrolling! For samples it is nightmare if you don't filter it with words like Kick or Snare especially if you have thousands of each!

The browser is the least I spent my time with, but I like the arrangement in Live more especially how to handle cue markers and how to navigate. I also begin to like the "simplicity and speed", as liquidsound said, in editing midi and clips which takes the most of my time.

I actually can have only Live Suite without any 3rd party synth or effect! Wavetable can cover most of what I need from synths while there is an excellent library of basic orchestral instruments that covers most of what I need. The drums overall is fantastic. The more time I spend with Live and its devices, the more I'm uninstalling things in my PC and Mac! I might end up selling most of what I have and concentrate on making music within Live mostly