Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, Plugin Alliance... You using it?

[jamcat]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.
So if I'm putting on a plugin to make stuff louder, I'd rather use an LA-2A clone with 2 knobs over one with 15 knobs that does the same job. At least I can make sense of the LA-2A.

[tmaworks]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.
So if I'm putting on a plugin to make stuff louder, I'd rather use an LA-2A clone with 2 knobs over one with 15 knobs that does the same job. At least I can make sense of the LA-2A.

Great point! Seems that everyday my natural aversion to the tool of compression is being justified more and more...

I'm no longer totally in love with the SH plugin, but -it definitely has a sheen about it. Might just be the "iron, nickel, steel" section eq playing tricks on me... I actually don't think there is a way to turn that off, which is annoying...

[pixel85]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.

This was my understanding of compression at the beginning of my journey with mixing processors.
Since many years I'm not using compressors to make things louder, but to:
- level signal over certain amount of time
- create new envelope of the signal
- add character if compression plugin is capable of any (like MJUC)

I'm always setting levels to be the same before/after (by ear not by numbers).

For me, Shadow Hill compressor didn't excel in any of those tasks. I don't know what is so special about it. I guess that it has its own usefulness in hardware world but in plugin world, not so much.

Ps. it reminds me plugin versions of a "legendary ultra-clean hardware compressors". Well, hard to beat basic native compressor in a DAW in that task.

[tmaworks]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.

This was my understanding of compression at the beginning of my journey with mixing processors.
Since many years I'm not using compressors to make things louder, but to:
- level signal over certain amount of time
- create new envelope of the signal
- add character if compression plugin is capable of any (like MJUC)

I'm always setting levels to be the same before/after (by ear not by numbers).

For me, Shadow Hill compressor didn't excel in any of those tasks. I don't know what is so special about it. I guess that it has its own usefulness in hardware world but in plugin world, not so much.

Ps. it reminds me plugin versions of a "legendary ultra-clean hardware compressors". Well, hard to beat basic native compressor in a DAW in that task.

By "basic native compressor in a DAW", you're referring to just any old generic Reaper compressor (reacomp?) or whatever - correct??

I went back and forth between MANY compressors on my master bus the other night and I think I've been fooled by the "nickel, iron, steel" setting on the Shadow Hills. It adds some eq - Plus, it doesn't look like you can disengage that section...

As of this moment in time, I'm leaning towards the Modern Apophis..., (keep coming back to it) or just plain old reacomp, which I just tried this morning. Either that or no masterbus compression at all. Just skip the nonsense alrogether...

[pixel85]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.

This was my understanding of compression at the beginning of my journey with mixing processors.
Since many years I'm not using compressors to make things louder, but to:
- level signal over certain amount of time
- create new envelope of the signal
- add character if compression plugin is capable of any (like MJUC)

I'm always setting levels to be the same before/after (by ear not by numbers).

For me, Shadow Hill compressor didn't excel in any of those tasks. I don't know what is so special about it. I guess that it has its own usefulness in hardware world but in plugin world, not so much.

Ps. it reminds me plugin versions of a "legendary ultra-clean hardware compressors". Well, hard to beat basic native compressor in a DAW in that task.

By "basic native compressor in a DAW", you're referring to just any old generic Reaper compressor (reacomp?) or whatever - correct??

I went back and forth between MANY compressors on my master bus the other night and I think I've been fooled by the "nickel, iron, steel" setting on the Shadow Hills. It adds some eq - Plus, it doesn't look like you can disengage that section...

As of this moment in time, I'm leaning towards the Modern Apaltogether..., (keep coming back to it) or just plain old reacomp, which I just tried this morning. Either that or no masterbus compression at all. Just skip the nonsense alrogether...

Yep I meant basic compressor plugin. While in hardware world, getting a clean compressor after decades of using those with high noise level, thd and other non-linearities, it surely was a revelation. But in a digital world, we are getting clean compression right away with basic plugins (that are not trying to emulate hardware): no nonlinearities, no noise, no thd etc. In digital world there's no need to "emulate" clean audio processing. We're getting it on default.
Or course it's all offtopic.

About those "nickel, iron, steel" settings, I never analyzed those but I don't expect that there's some amazing coding used that emulates hardware in 100 and 1 % more.

Ps. I'm not a pro mastering engineer (even that I do basic "mastering" for some audio materials). The longer I work with audio, the less often I put compressor on master bus. I prefer to glue mix with some gentle tape saturation if I want it.

[jamcat]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.

This was my understanding of compression at the beginning of my journey with mixing processors.
Since many years I'm not using compressors to make things louder, but to:
- level signal over certain amount of time
- create new envelope of the signal
- add character if compression plugin is capable of any (like MJUC)

I'm always setting levels to be the same before/after (by ear not by numbers).

Sure. And technically, a compressor makes stuff quieter, so you can turn it up… and make it louder.

But despite countless hours of careful comparison of the quality of this compressor vs that compressor, critical headphone listening tests of the subtle shapes and colours, delicately dialing in precise settings and listening hard for that elusive, undefined analogyness that we all do (and do over all over again every time a new compressor plugin comes out), the bottom line is none of that really matters at all.

Once you take it out on the road in a real mix, there’s really only one thing you hear it doing or not doing: making stuff louder. If the sustain of the instrument disappears in the wash of sound too quickly, you squash it some more and turn it up louder. If the transients aren’t poking out to a satisfactory amount, you fiddle with the attack to make them louder. In the end, compressors get used as blunt instruments to make stuff louder, and everything else gets buried in the mix.

[ramseysounds]

Quite a cynical view, but I understand why you think that. Compressors when used properly, as you well know, are there to give a more consistent volume, especially on say vocals. Sure they can make stuff louder, of course they can. Personally, I think people over use compressors (actually probably most processors) because they think they have to. There's another thread on here currently, driving me to distraction, but that's another story. When used properly, any processor has it's rightful place. IMO.

[chagzuki]

I use compressors for expressive purposes, and differences in behaviour matter, though there are lots of good compressors available now. This can't be subsumed under 'loudness'. The behaviour of a compressor is expressive in that it simulates forces: pressure, resistance, impact etc.. It makes the sound sounds as though it's impacting on something, which makes it sound powerful, as though it exerts a force.

[jamcat]

You're all making valid points. But my point is that you really don't need to overthink it. Leveling out a vocal is still really about making the loudest parts quieter so you can make the quiet parts louder. Mainly because if you don't, the vocal will be dipping in and out under the other instruments. I really have come to see compression as mostly for making instruments play nice with each other in a mix. All the nuance and colour doesn't mean much in a full song because of frequency masking. Now if you've got a sparse composition, that's different. But then, you may not need compression at all.

I've downloaded stems from a lot of notable records to study, and one thing that is almost always the case is the individual tracks are pretty smashed, gated, and noisy. The sound cuts out just as quick and as hard as it slammed in, leaving behind only an audible noise floor. There's no respect for reverb tails or even natural decay. And the reason is because the moment a sound ducks below the next loudest thing, it's perceived only as mud.

[Stopani]

I got it. I don't really get it. But just gently on my master bus it shines my music up

[tmaworks]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.

This was my understanding of compression at the beginning of my journey with mixing processors.
Since many years I'm not using compressors to make things louder, but to:
- level signal over certain amount of time
- create new envelope of the signal
- add character if compression plugin is capable of any (like MJUC)

I'm always setting levels to be the same before/after (by ear not by numbers).

For me, Shadow Hill compressor didn't excel in any of those tasks. I don't know what is so special about it. I guess that it has its own usefulness in hardware world but in plugin world, not so much.

Ps. it reminds me plugin versions of a "legendary ultra-clean hardware compressors". Well, hard to beat basic native compressor in a DAW in that task.

By "basic native compressor in a DAW", you're referring to just any old generic Reaper compressor (reacomp?) or whatever - correct??

I went back and forth between MANY compressors on my master bus the other night and I think I've been fooled by the "nickel, iron, steel" setting on the Shadow Hills. It adds some eq - Plus, it doesn't look like you can disengage that section...

As of this moment in time, I'm leaning towards the Modern Apaltogether..., (keep coming back to it) or just plain old reacomp, which I just tried this morning. Either that or no masterbus compression at all. Just skip the nonsense alrogether...

Yep I meant basic compressor plugin. While in hardware world, getting a clean compressor after decades of using those with high noise level, thd and other non-linearities, it surely was a revelation. But in a digital world, we are getting clean compression right away with basic plugins (that are not trying to emulate hardware): no nonlinearities, no noise, no thd etc. In digital world there's no need to "emulate" clean audio processing. We're getting it on default.
Or course it's all offtopic.

About those "nickel, iron, steel" settings, I never analyzed those but I don't expect that there's some amazing coding used that emulates hardware in 100 and 1 % more.

Ps. I'm not a pro mastering engineer (even that I do basic "mastering" for some audio materials). The longer I work with audio, the less often I put compressor on master bus. I prefer to glue mix with some gentle tape saturation if I want it.

I'm so happy you said that about not putting compression on the master bus anymore!! -It's definitely something I've been struggling with recently and I've elected to leave all that up to the mastering engineer. Intuitively, I like to take care of things on a track by track basis -It doesn't make sense to me to apply some "cover-all" compressor early on in the process and mix through that. Even with only 1-2 db of gain reduction I've noticed my mixes becoming smaller. And -What if I don't want that style of compressor on everything?? Why put it there to begin with?

What are some typical things you do on the masterbus these days and when do you apply them, typically?

Also -Not quite sure what you meant by "I don't expect that there's some amazing coding used that emulates hardware in 100 and 1 % more...". Was there a typo in there??

[Dirk Diggler]

Take some time to learn to use it, it does require a bit of tweaking, but great on tracks and of course the master buss.
For me one of the best freebies so far.

[tmaworks]

Take some time to learn to use it, it does require a bit of tweaking, but great on tracks and of course the master buss.
For me one of the best freebies so far.

I'm a little bit disappointed that the "nickel, iron and steel" option doesn't seem to be able to turn off/ disengage from the rest of the compressor...

[tmaworks]

Let's face it, all these plugins do the same thing: they make stuff louder.
So if I'm putting on a plugin to make stuff louder, I'd rather use an LA-2A clone with 2 knobs over one with 15 knobs that does the same job. At least I can make sense of the LA-2A.

Kind of with you on this -I've noticed from my dozens of trials that certain compressors make things "move" differently, which is why I would pick one over the other, but yeah -Its can all be a big "hulla-ballo". Also, I never smash vocals with an LA2A anymore because it makes the sibilance and breaths pop out something fierce. Don't know why, but it just does... I think 1176 emulation at whatever setting doing all the heavy lifting and then LA2A on top of that at only -2 or 3 db is enough. I know some people do the opposite, Maybe they like those big breaths??

I avoid compression and use it only when necessary. Tempting to go with just levelers to be honest...

[tmaworks]

You're all making valid points. But my point is that you really don't need to overthink it. Leveling out a vocal is still really about making the loudest parts quieter so you can make the quiet parts louder. Mainly because if you don't, the vocal will be dipping in and out under the other instruments. I really have come to see compression as mostly for making instruments play nice with each other in a mix. All the nuance and colour doesn't mean much in a full song because of frequency masking. Now if you've got a sparse composition, that's different. But then, you may not need compression at all.

I've downloaded stems from a lot of notable records to study, and one thing that is almost always the case is the individual tracks are pretty smashed, gated, and noisy. The sound cuts out just as quick and as hard as it slammed in, leaving behind only an audible noise floor. There's no respect for reverb tails or even natural decay. And the reason is because the moment a sound ducks below the next loudest thing, it's perceived only as mud.

With you on all this. The thing that I can always sense with any compressor though is the movement -And that, of course, effects how it "sits" in a track... I'm mostly just using 1176 emulations or LA2A or some other similar two knob thing... 4 knobs max -I'm not sure what to do with all the rest, although I know what they do... for the most part...