How many of you are getting the Osmose?

[SteveElbows]

In MPE mode, Osmose sends the first half of the key down movement as channel pressure and the second half as timbre/CC74.

You can switch that to the other way around if you want, because inside the Osmoses own settings screens for 'ext midi' you can choose what to assign to each zone of pressure. You can also mess around with sensitivity curves in a way that may help with some of the other issues you mentioned. I like to turn that number that reflects how soon a key triggers note on/off right down to a low number, but have to be a bit careful as too low a value may increase chance of stuck notes.

What we didn't get to work was the inter-key-pitch-slide. That doesn't seem to be sent via MPE/Multichannel...

Not implemented in the external midi layer yet. The Osmose screen for setting this up still says 'coming soon' in the current firmware. Same for the arpeggiator.

You can sort of work around this by using the 2nd usb midi port if you set it up on the Osmose to send Haken MPE+ data. MPE+ is mostly backwards compatible with MPE so you can pair this with soft synths ok. There are a few caveats, mostly to do with the fact that the detail of the midi that comes out of this Haken midi layer may be influenced by the EaganMatrix settings for whatever internal synth patch you have selected at the time. And there might for example be issues with what messages the global pitch bend and global mod slider are sending, or not sending, through this port depending on the patch. So I wouldnt call this solution completely ideal, just a temporary workaround.

Very strange was, that Bitwig itself didn't recognise the Timbre. A midi monitor showed it being there just fine, Vital saw it just fine, but the BWS MPE expression modulator didn't react.
Not sure what that is about, I expected all BWS devices to work perfectly with the Osmose...
We'll investigate further.

I havent looked into that yet. What sort of device have you put the Osmose in as in the controller setup section of Bitwig? I was using the Roli Seaboard controller script that they provided, mostly because this is what I'm used to using with other MPE controllers in the past. Havent looked at what other MPE-specific controller script options may exist in Bitwig these days.

The upper Pressure range somehow isn't so easy to play slow and nuanced since it's rather soft.

Depends on style of playing the keys - I absolutely love this range of the keyboard but then I've been playing it in its own gentle way rather than how I might normally approach playing keys. But as mentioned earlier there are sensitivity curve settings in Osmose that might help.

But my initial enthusiasm has cooled quite a lot. It's way more specific than I expected.
So it will need a rather big amount of learning both for playing but especially for sound design - it's not easy to get those keys to play as natural as with the better factory presets.
We hope we'll grow into it though, it still is a piece of beauty and feels fantastic with the right sounds!
And I still want one too

Even in this era where many MPE synths are now available, it is true that on many of them the MPE-specific patches need some work or dont really exist. I'm really looking forward to delving more into this area myself, although I havent yet chosen which software and hardware MPE synths I think give the best options, which ones I will focus most on this year. Many of us will need some sound designers to embrace this challenge, give it some time.

A couple of very early thoughts on that based on some preliminary tests:

OB-6 is fun to play with the Osmose but is not a highly versatile MPE hardware synth in terms of which parameters can be controlled by MPE messages. So not an all-rounder, but what it does do it does very well.

The bunch of Cherry Audio plugins that support MPE tend to have a bunch of MPE presets, but a lot of them arent that exciting to play with the Osmose.

The various Dawesome synths support MPE and show the MPE data up nicely in the UI.

A bunch of Arturia synths in V collection support MPE as of version 9. But work is required to make patches for these that make good use of MPE. Pitch bending and the synths that already support basic aftertouch are a starting point but wont get us all of the way to the promised land of expressivity.

Pigments may be a good contender for an MPE synth that people will craft sounds on without getting bogged down in the complexities of EaganMatrix.

UVI Falcon and a few of the instruments built on top of it may be another contender for people that dont mind its UI, and people could do a UVI subscription for one month to evaluate.

Its been a while since I used the MPE stuff in Serum but thats another option.

Roli Equator 2 has been the most fun to play out of the box with the Osmose so far, due to the large number of MPE-ready presets. I'll try Cypher 2 and Strobe 2 soon as well, expect somewhat similar results.

[pdxindy]

But my initial enthusiasm has cooled quite a lot. It's way more specific than I expected.
So it will need a rather big amount of learning both for playing but especially for sound design - it's not easy to get those keys to play as natural as with the better factory presets.
We hope we'll grow into it though, it still is a piece of beauty and feels fantastic with the right sounds!
And I still want one too

Thanks for the informative write-up!

I'm not surprised that it is hit or miss as a controller for plugin synths. It is early days. I guess that it will take developers like u-he to specifically make their synths work with the native Osmose mode to really take advantage of its capability and feel similar to factory sounds.

I've never thought of the Osmose as a possible replacement for my Linnstrument. The lack of Timbre as an independent axis and not having pitch slides except via that 2 key portamento method means the Linnstrument will always have functionality not possible in Osmose (and opposite too).

So Osmose plus Linnstrument plus ERAE Touch is to me a great combo... each doing stuff the other doesn't.

[pdxindy]

Even in this era where many MPE synths are now available, it is true that on many of them the MPE-specific patches need some work or dont really exist. I'm really looking forward to delving more into this area myself, although I havent yet chosen which software and hardware MPE synths I think give the best options, which ones I will focus most on this year. Many of us will need some sound designers to embrace this challenge, give it some time.

I've given up on using hardware synths for MPE. At least for the foreseeable future.

Software is so much more advanced for MPE. Especially now with CLAP and PolyMod in Bitwig. There is so much more fine control in software and it is also more accessible.

The difficulty for sound designers is that MPE is a niche market and then different controllers behave differently enough that presets really need to be tailored to the specific controller.

[SLiC]

I think this is where the EM sound engine as part of the Osmose is a winner as the EM is designed from the ground up for MPE+...I have found the EM engine is the most playable/expressive sounds I have come across so far...for me better than any VST (but maybe that just the integration). Plasmonic is also pretty good with Osmose.

[ThomasHelzle]

Thanks for the feedback Steve!

Yeah, I think it's not so much about what it sends, more finding good ways to use it - and synths that work well with it. Vital is extremely versatile and deep and everything can be mapped precisely, so that's a pretty perfect match. My GF doesn't have as many synths, so we were limited there.
On my computer I have some synths I want to try for sure.
I look forward to try Plasmonic with it. Cypher should be good although it never grew on me, the old Equator maybe (don't have v2), Pigments indeed.

May be also good to create an Eagan Matrix user preset just for playing external synths with MPE+ with somehow "neutral", full range settings so that one can then deal in the details in the receiving synth.

We tried different curves for the pressure, but especially Respiro felt awkward to me still. Love it with a wind controller though, so it may be just that it's super natural to play that way for me...
And like pdxindy said, Osmose will not be a one-size-fits-all thing.

I just don't like the Linnstrument surface, nor the Erae Touch. Could probably fall in love with the Haaken Continuum (enjoyed it deeply at Superbooth), but would need to win the lottery for that.
So for the time being, my converted Seaboard Block will have to do for continuous control.

Will try out MPE+ and other controller scripts. Since the CC74 data was definitely coming in, I didn't think of that (we used the default keyboard script, normally that should work, it's basically my old "let everything through" script that they adapted, but yeah, that's definitely something to try, although one shouldn't need a specific script anymore in theory...

Early days indeed and a lot of mysteries solved already.
The docs seem extremely limited - I thought them having 3 years to refine things would bring that stuff much further along.
The online page about how to connect to the Eagan Matrix could definitely use some love and depth.

But yeah, will be interesting to see what can be done by somebody like Yuli Yolo or other really good sound designers.
And hopefully I can grok the Matrix myself too. I just hate Max, so that doesn't help

Cheers,

Tom

[SteveElbows]

I've given up on using hardware synths for MPE. At least for the foreseeable future.

Software is so much more advanced for MPE. Especially now with CLAP and PolyMod in Bitwig. There is so much more fine control in software and it is also more accessible.

The difficulty for sound designers is that MPE is a niche market and then different controllers behave differently enough that presets really need to be tailored to the specific controller.

Depends what you are aiming to achieve. There are a bunch of hardware synths where I love the character of the sound so much that mostly all I'm really look for from MPE support is the per note pitch bend and a glorified version of polyphonic aftertouch, controlling traditional synth sounds, and many do manage to achieve that.

But yes expressive controllers do invite much more than that, and thats where including the EaganMatrix in the Osmose was a very sensible and necessary move.

The most obvious hardware synth that I might try to take further into complex MPE patch territory is the Waldorf Iridium/Quantum. Thats more like using software in some ways anyway, and now there are other useful things such as a preset system for the mod matrix so I can reuse good mod matrix setups for MPE across new patches with ease. And the UDO Super 6, while currently lacking mature MPE (eg MPE Y hardwired for now), does have some qualities in its sound that might be a lovely fit for the Osmoses keys and some of the sounds we might imagine it controlling.

Returning to my point about simpler uses of MPE in hardware synths, I do expect plenty of people to discover the joys of using expressive controllers with monosynths too. And when the arpeggiator becomes more accessible to the other forms of midi output from the Osmose, that will open up some very interesting stuff people didnt know they wanted from the Osmose too.

All of this plays further into my sense that there are many different ways to play the Osmose, the built in synth engine highlights quite a number of these and there is more territory to explore beyond that too.

MPE sound design will indeed remain a niche but I expect Osmose to be enough of a success that it will expand this niche. Its just a question of whether that extends much beyond the EaganMatrix engine, and if so which other synths gain traction with the sound designers who end up targeting Osmose users. If I get good enough to contribute to this scene then I dont know which synths I'll end up targeting, I exclude no option for now, heck I could even end up doing complex stuff in VCV rack for all I know!

[ThomasHelzle]

Good points.
I would put Vital high on that list of target synths, since it's very accessible and brilliantly versatile.
Will also be interesting what u-he will come up with - Hive and Zebra 3 should be good matches.
Pigments sounds a bit bland but the potential is there.
I pushed the guys behind ANA2 a bit in the MPE direction during beta and they seemed interested. The latest version 2.5 with Multisample support has become very versatile and sounds gorgeous. It now has at least a global pitch bend setting as a first step.
Plasmonic of course.
The SWAM range should be good, but no sound design potential there.
And all the internal Bitwig instruments, which cover quite a lot and the user base keeps growing.

So yeah, will be interesting if the Osmose can bring MPE to the mainstream. The potential is there, definitely more than any other keyboard I know. The Roli stuff won't do that.

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

Good points.
I would put Vital high on that list of target synths, since it's very accessible and brilliantly versatile.
Will also be interesting what u-he will come up with - Hive and Zebra 3 should be good matches.
Pigments sounds a bit bland but the potential is there.

Diva, RePro, ACE and Bazille will also be great with Bitwig. Unlimited per voice modulation via CLAP along with a number of fairly unique Bitwig modulators and controlled by MPE per note.

[SteveElbows]

On todays Sonic Talk they confirmed that a nice long video from SonicState about the Osmose is coming out tomorrow.

[ThomasHelzle]

Awesome - looking forward to it!

[pdxindy]

Depends what you are aiming to achieve. There are a bunch of hardware synths where I love the character of the sound so much that mostly all I'm really look for from MPE support is the per note pitch bend and a glorified version of polyphonic aftertouch, controlling traditional synth sounds, and many do manage to achieve that.

I'm happy to make that much use of MPE as well with an existing hardware synth cause it's more than nothing. I just wouldn't buy or focus on MPE with hardware when software is a magnitude more flexible and nuanced. The ability to control the pressure curve for each mod destination is very helpful and easy to do in software and is there even a single hardware synth with that? I don't think so.

Just look at a few of the initial reactions of Osmose users gushing over how expressive and playable some of the factory presets are... then they come back down to earth when it isn't feeling the same way as a controller for other synths. Subtle control over individual parameters is essential for that sort of feel while playing.

[SteveElbows]

Just look at a few of the initial reactions of Osmose users gushing over how expressive and playable some of the factory presets are... then they come back down to earth when it isn't feeling the same way as a controller for other synths. Subtle control over individual parameters is essential for that sort of feel while playing.

I understand that feeling, I've had it myself already despite knowing what to expect in this regard.

Honestly a lot of that feeling comes down to playing patches that havent been crafted with the Osmose in mind or arent even MPE patches at all. And so I am refusing to give up on any synth experience when played with the Osmose until I've put a fair amount of time into actually crafting patches on each synth with the Osmose in mind.

Yesa sometimes with certain synths and certain sounds and ways opf playing in mind, it will turn out that the synth is missing some subtle but important controls/curves. But a fair amount of the time people havent even got the very basics setup, and at that stage any judgement is premature.

I've just been messing around with the Kijimi paired with the Osmose, some patches are a sad experience and some already indicate potential.

[SLiC]

I am optimistic that with UHE being an early adopter of the Osmose that he may tweak his synths to work well in this regard (he has hinted as much)

Personally I have had success with the Dawsome stuff and Plasmonic in controller mode, all MPE stuff takes a bit of work to get things how you like it...but having gone through a Linnstrument, Rolli and Sensel I can honestly say I find this the most rewarding and playable.

[pdxindy]

but having gone through a Linnstrument, Rolli and Sensel I can honestly say I find this the most rewarding and playable.

I'm sure I am going to enjoy my Osmose (whenever it arrives) and that it has strengths not matched by my Linnstrument. It's exciting to read peoples early reports!

The Linnstrument however can do a lot that the Osmose cannot. The Osmose could never replace my Linnstrument which is an exceptional and versatile tool. That is why I will be happy to have both!

[SLiC]

but having gone through a Linnstrument, Rolli and Sensel I can honestly say I find this the most rewarding and playable.

I'm sure I am going to enjoy my Osmose (whenever it arrives) and that it has strengths not matched by my Linnstrument. It's exciting to read peoples early reports!

The Linnstrument however can do a lot that the Osmose cannot. The Osmose could never replace my Linnstrument which is an exceptional and versatile tool. That is why I will be happy to have both!

Absolutely, I thought the Lin would suit me (as a guitarist for 20+ years the layout seemed ideal) but I juts didn't practice enough I guess and I know my 'shapes/scales' on the regular keys...old dog! Anyway, the Osmose and AERE sort of give me the best of both worlds (Y slide etc) so I am happy with my combo!

PS- New Osmose Site up https://www.expressivee.com/2-osmose