Korg Modwave Native (VST3)

[danatkorg]

I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

More info on the above:
For both synths, this is a single sawtooth played through the respective instrument's "MS-20" filter, with no other effects. On the modwave, Filter Gain is set to "Normal, 2-osc input." I roughly matched envelope shapes and times. The first sweep is with resonance at maximum, and the second sweep is resonance at 80%. For me, the differences I hear are in the amount of grit and organic instability, both of which are characteristic of the MS-20. Let me know what you think.

[danatkorg]

Is that gain structure the same in Opsix and Wavestate also?

In the wavestate, yes. Opsix doesn't have a dedicated parameter, but you can achieve the same thing by turning down the oscillator levels.

[kritikon]

Oh, you beautiful man. I can feel some strange Wavestate patches coming on this week. Nice to know I can do it with Opsix too, though it can already upset dogs half a km away, so not quite as important.

[spacepluk]

I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

More info on the above:
For both synths, this is a single sawtooth played through the respective instrument's "MS-20" filter, with no other effects. On the modwave, Filter Gain is set to "Normal, 2-osc input." I roughly matched envelope shapes and times. The first sweep is with resonance at maximum, and the second sweep is resonance at 80%. For me, the differences I hear are in the amount of grit and organic instability, both of which are characteristic of the MS-20. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for that comparison. I can definitely hear the extra grittiness in the modwave’s filter

[kritikon]

Yeah, the Pigments one sounded smoother somehow - which is not at all what an MS20 filter at high res should be. Both really quite similar though. I'm gagging to go try out my Wavestate now. I played around a little with the filters but obv missed out the gain thing, so I couldn't get that harsh tearing quality that I so associate with MS20. I even dabbled with putting Wavestate through my real MS20 - but it's not quite the same thing I find - I never really had great results with external input to its filters. Also it's a revelation to me that the Polysix filters work that way too. I never really thought of Polysixes as great filters - creamy but just a little bit meh. Mind you, I only had limited access to a Polysix back in the day. So now I'll have to see how badly I can overdrive the Polysix filters as well.

[ReiKru]

got mine yesterday and i´m happy with it next to wavestate native and opsix native

[zerocrossing]

I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

More info on the above:
For both synths, this is a single sawtooth played through the respective instrument's "MS-20" filter, with no other effects. On the modwave, Filter Gain is set to "Normal, 2-osc input." I roughly matched envelope shapes and times. The first sweep is with resonance at maximum, and the second sweep is resonance at 80%. For me, the differences I hear are in the amount of grit and organic instability, both of which are characteristic of the MS-20. Let me know what you think.

I’m away from my studio or any decent way to hear your examples, but when I did it, I felt like the Korg was noticeably weaker sounding. I was pretty surprised. I didn’t mess with the filter gain setting, though. I just used whatever the default is.

[danatkorg]

I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

More info on the above:
For both synths, this is a single sawtooth played through the respective instrument's "MS-20" filter, with no other effects. On the modwave, Filter Gain is set to "Normal, 2-osc input." I roughly matched envelope shapes and times. The first sweep is with resonance at maximum, and the second sweep is resonance at 80%. For me, the differences I hear are in the amount of grit and organic instability, both of which are characteristic of the MS-20. Let me know what you think.

I’m away from my studio or any decent way to hear your examples, but when I did it, I felt like the Korg was noticeably weaker sounding. I was pretty surprised. I didn’t mess with the filter gain setting, though. I just used whatever the default is.

I look forward to hearing your conclusions once you have a chance to listen again. Note that I would not normally make direct comparisons with a named competitor, and do so in this case only because of the initial "dare." I also don't think this makes them look bad; there's just a bit more edge in our version.

Many of the factory sounds use these filters without resonance, and since there is a tendency to make things as loud as possible, for those sounds the Gain may be set to "Unity (less resonance)" or "Loud (less resonance)." Sound designers may also either like the sound of the filter saturation without resonance, or like the reduced resonance of these versions for certain purposes. I tried to be as clear as possible with these names; they do what they say on the tin, as it were.

[Echoes in the Attic]

So the modwave has the wave sequencing from the wavestate? So what does it not do that the wavestate does?

Also, I assume the ms-20 filters are the same models as in the hardware modeave - are these improved models since the old ms-20 plugin that was first developed a couple decades ago?

Lastly, any plans at korg to support mpe?

[SLiC]

I can't answer all of your questions but the Wavestate offers a different sample per step in the sequencer for example. I have both, If I was only buying one wit would be the Modwave (and to be honest if I had bought that first I may not have bough the Wavestate)

[zvenx]

This *may* help differentiate the two.
https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/blog/2021/0 ... -wavestate
But yeah as Slic says they aren't quite the same.

The one advantage of the modwave for me is the simplicity of the Play page which the wavestate doesn't at least currently have.
But I am more a preset and tweak player than someone who wants to always get into the nuts and bolts..

That said If I only had to get one, I would require days of intense deliberation to decide which (and I am not a huge wavetables guy). Thank goodness I don't.
For me, these two are probably the best ear candy software synths released in 2022.
rsp

[zerocrossing]

I dare anyone to compare its MS20 filter emulation to the new one in Pigments.

Dare accepted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/10wfq6435lp0x ... _ms-20.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uffzzttygnrz9 ... _ms-20.wav

(Not sure what's going on with KVR's links to wav files, but manually open the links and you'll be able to play them...)

OK, I had a moment, and that's very different than what I experienced in my personal test. I'd redo it, but the Modwave demo is so broken I can't get past the nag screen. I did notice something this time, though. When I click "Try" I hear a Windows alert sound. (I'm running sound from my browser into Bitwig for a project) I don't see anything pop up, though. I've never had this type of issue with another demo, and I didn't even have it initially with this one, so I'm not sure what's what.

[edit]OK, for fun I tried running Bitwig as an admin, and I was able to click past the nag screen, and found it nagging me to update, but clicking on the Update button does nothing. Hm... let me investigate.

[zerocrossing]

OK, got it. I must have had a buggy initial release. Using the Korg installer app I was able to download and install version 1.02 and it doesn't have the nag screen problem.

First off, I see that the parameter ranges are not the same. Pigments does not seem to let you higher than 14 khz, Modwave is out of the audio range. That's nice. I always like more range, as long as fine tuning is a possibility.

Second, I'm noticing that I can't get Modwave to keytrack well across the range. I'm not sure if its a bug... it also seems odd that the parameter seems to go from-142 to 142. What's 100% in that range? (RTFM later... ) OK, I never would have guessed 60 from that UI, so big demerits for making something so unintuitive. I like that slope thing, but it's not easy to find. I should have set my UI at a bigger size.

Now down to bid'ness. I'll concede that I can get the Modwave to scream right, but I did have to select 2 osc filter gain. That seems an odd way of doing things, as I'm just used to having that control at a mixer stage, but OK. I'm going to still come down on the side of Pigments by a hair. What comes off as a bit duller sound is actually a bit less dampening of the bass. If you compensate for this, the Arturia one sounds a bit fuller, though both are nice. I guess I'll call it a draw, because my guess is the Korg is more accurate, though I like a bit of a bass compensation at high resonance.

I'll take back my initial assessment. Partially user error, though one would assume that using a single osc into the MS20 filter would get the expected amount of scream.

[EvilDragon]

it also seems odd that the parameter seems to go from-142 to 142. What's 100% in that range? (RTFM later... ) OK, I never would have guessed 60 from that UI

It's offset in semitones I suppose.

[zerocrossing]

it also seems odd that the parameter seems to go from-142 to 142. What's 100% in that range? (RTFM later... ) OK, I never would have guessed 60 from that UI

It's offset in semitones I suppose.

It's even odder because the init default is 20.