What Makes a Good Song?

[donkey tugger]

Really? I can't say I am able to find anything worthwhile in either's work. But I do dislike them for different reasons, so we at least have that in common.

I often think that many of the Motown classics would have fared better if they had been done in a sinthesiser goth stylee (not hardware of course) in the penal colony rather than in Detroit.

i know it was northern soul (wigan pier) not motown, but tainted love worked pretty well

Too much anal log hardware, you idiot.

[vurt]

good point!

[Bombadil]

This thread is hilarious. How do you describe colour to a blind man?

[jancivil]

Really? I can't say I am able to find anything worthwhile in either's work. But I do dislike them for different reasons, so we at least have that in common.

I often think that many of the Motown classics would have fared better if they had been done in a sinthesiser goth stylee (not hardware of course) in the penal colony rather than in Detroit.

but tainted love

https://www.kafka-online.info/in-the-penal-colony.html

[vurt]

ill have to have a read!
ive only read metamorphosis from kafka

[BONES]

They should have used sinthesiser (not hardware, naturally).

My mate was playing his Nord Stage, but he tends to use those horrible electric piano and organ sounds. But there was all that ego shit where everyone has to have their solo at some point. All that kind of garbage that I can well do without.

Chambers' Brothers, Time Has Come Today is a good example of a slow song with energy & tension. Strong groove, almost no melody. I admire their inventiveness.

I'd hardly call that a slow song, apart from the middle bit. It is quite interesting, though, very inventive and it does work. Not my thing at all but still very listenable. It feels like Talking Heads might have been influenced by it. But it does go on a bit.

My preference is for motifs with interesting groove, vocal timbre, and surprising harmonic intervals. ELO's Mr Blue Sky immediately comes to mind. Terrific vocal technique.

I'd pretty much lost interest in ELO by then. Mr Blue Sky is very Beatles-like to me. It all made sense when I found out Jeff Lynne and George Harrison were best mates.

My favourite song of all time is Philip Glass/ Laurie Anderson/ Linda Ronstadt's Forgetting. It is only groove and harmonic intervals. Zero melody, stratospheric vocals.

I just had a listen, not something I can get into at all.

This thread is hilarious. How do you describe colour to a blind man?

Only if you think there is a single answer. My intention is to maybe get people to think about something they may not have thought about before or to get them to think about it in a different way. It's more of a thought experiment than a question seeking a definitive answer.

[Michael L]

Mr Blue Sky is very Beatles-like to me. It all made sense when I found out Jeff Lynne and George Harrison were best mates.

Jeff Lynne's main influences were Del Shannon, Roy Orbison and The Beatles, in that order. He said the Beatles comparison is "the highest compliment." McCartney said ELO copied them-- such as the percussive strings in Mr Blue Sky-- but "did it so well" they chose Lynne to produce Anthology.

This thread is hilarious. How do you describe colour to a blind man?

It's more of a thought experiment than a question seeking a definitive answer.

I always thought I preferred melody until I used "words" and then "realised" it was actually harmonic changes within a groove. Jazz & world changed theory so it's no longer all about tonality within a key, but about how chords fit within the groove structure, so "words" do help one "realise" whatcher doon.

[BONES]

I honestly have no clue what any of that actually means, although it does sound to me like a way you could describe melody.

[Michael L]

I honestly have no clue what any of that actually means, although it does sound to me like a way you could describe melody.

well, here is a thought experiment:
- Aretha Franklin's 'Chain of Fools' is just one chord.
- so is Bo Diddley's 'Bo Diddley' & Creedence's 'Keep on Chooglin' & Nilsson's 'Coconut'
how can you describe What Makes any one of them a Good Song?
is it the melody ... or something else?

[vurt]

power, attitude and driving rhythm, ill take those odds, and totally expect to be called an idiot and that it's shit.



tbh, i could have picked any bjork track, as an example of a good track, not necessarily with the above criteria.
why do i like them so much?
well, while some of her work on the surface, sounds ultra basic, repeated listening often reveals far more going on.
her vocal style and range, there is no one else you might mistake for her once she opens her mouth.
she embraces the sound design aspect as much as anything, and will throw things in one might not expect (oboes on the most recent dance track...) and alongside this, she has an imagination that shines in most of her work, from the weirder music to the lyrical poetry.

[dayjob]

Some people like jazz and find typical song structures to be, quite often, less interesting.

There’s no rules. People like what they like. There’s no wrong answers. Expression takes the form it takes.

The good thing is there’s lots of styles and things endlessly morph and you don’t have to pick just one thing. Everything can exist. Limiting the definition of what is “good” is dogmatic and fascist imo.

[vurt]

Some people like jazz and find typical song structures to be, quite often, less interesting.

There’s no rules. People like what they like. There’s no wrong answers. Expression takes the form it takes.

The good thing is there’s lots of styles and things endlessly morph and you don’t have to pick just one thing. Everything can exist. Limiting the definition of what is “good” is dogmatic and fascist imo.

i dont think thats bones intention, while he does this in his own listening, the thread is more like one of those youtube channels "why i love this song!!!!"
i think he wants you or i, to choose a song (or songs) and explain why we like them.

so then he can call us idiots and tell us our taste is shit

[HAL76]

I can just speak for me and what I feel is "good" and I'd say that it's mainly the state of mind of the artist. Soulfulness makes songs good, while a lack of emotinality makes it maybe complex, maybe artful, often rude and seldom pleasant to listen to it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOxFl4dna ... e=youtu.be

[dayjob]

Some people like jazz and find typical song structures to be, quite often, less interesting.

There’s no rules. People like what they like. There’s no wrong answers. Expression takes the form it takes.

The good thing is there’s lots of styles and things endlessly morph and you don’t have to pick just one thing. Everything can exist. Limiting the definition of what is “good” is dogmatic and fascist imo.

i dont think thats bones intention, while he does this in his own listening, the thread is more like one of those youtube channels "why i love this song!!!!"
i think he wants you or i, to choose a song (or songs) and explain why we like them.

so then he can call us idiots and tell us our taste is shit

yeah. i get it. i know. i find it cumbersome and i regret having read his post. it's steeped in a veiled hierarchical thinking but whatever. it's his way. i can't take him seriously and shouldn't post in this thread. i'm gonna go.

[Roman Empire]

I have earlier seen this BONES mentioning the socalled edge-factor as important for a song, meaning that somewhere between the lines, it´s important what the attitude is of the performer or the songwriter, apparently something that P.I.L. has and Bee Gees don´t (according to BONES). AFAIK that´s not a parameter in songwriting, this "edge" thing, so perhaps the thread is an attempt for BONES to start understanding what good songwriting is all about?
Also, BONES doesn´t like instrumental pieces, so I guess it could be an uphill experience explaining how the melody line essentially is important for something to be considered a good song - a good melody can be vocalized or instrumental.